Double post.. feel free to delete.

 

The clutch is very different than your MZ3.....I find it really easy to start in 1st at around 1,000rpms and have a smooth launch on hills or flat streets. You just have to really eaze the clutch out slowly.

 

I could be wrong, but isn't first geared quite a bit differently in the ms3 as opposed to the mz3? That would have something to do with it as well.

 

[quote author=broncoblitz link=topic=121100.msg2554193#msg2554193 date=1219268612]
I could be wrong, but isn't first geared quite a bit differently in the ms3 as opposed to the mz3? That would have something to do with it as well.
[/quote] Well I know for a fact that you have to give it gas to move in first gear...it won't just put itself and move forward without alittle gas.

 

[quote author=ill0gic link=topic=121100.msg2554196#msg2554196 date=1219268701]
[quote author=broncoblitz link=topic=121100.msg2554193#msg2554193 date=1219268612]
I could be wrong, but isn't first geared quite a bit differently in the ms3 as opposed to the mz3? That would have something to do with it as well.
[/quote] Well I know for a fact that you have to give it gas to move in first gear...it won't just put itself and move forward without alittle gas.
[/quote]

Well that's kinda what I wanted confirmed I suppose. I know that before the turbo spools up it should be weaker and everything but it feels like there is no power at all. I'll just have to get used to giving it more gas (I tried revving it higher heading home from work and that gave more smoothness) albeit I'm unused to revving that high on normal starts.

Thanks for the replies.

 

How high are you revving it to? What rpms?

Also, our engine is very torquey compared to the MZ3, as a matter of fact, I think because of turbo size and torque of this engine and it's peek torque range, there is no turbo lag.

 

Well what I would normally do is just let off the clutch semi-slowly and then start pressing the gas slightly. I'm pretty sure that normally the RPM is at 750 or slightly lower. That's usually where I would start going in the MZ3. Mind you this is on very slow starts like out of my garage, not at a light where I go higher and it is less of a problem.

I do know that the engine outputs a heck of a lot more torque compared to the MZ3 and while driving there is no contest of course. I just feel that below 1500 RPM this engine actually feels weaker. Now I'm no expert by any means when it comes to driving but I haven't stalled a car in years. When I picked up the MS3 I stalled probably twice in reverse backing out and then once leaving. The dealer actually followed up with me wondering if I still had trouble. I just assumed I needed time to adjust to the new clutch but it has been giving me more problem than any other car I have driven.

I don't actually stall it any more at all so that's not the problem. What I'm wondering is if it is normal having to "push" that hard to get going even when not running the AC and I'm the only one in the car. With AC running and 2-3 extra people in there... geez it feels like the car lost like 50 horses or more.

Just trying to understand if the issue is with my vehicle or if I just need to get used to it and l2drive lol...

 

I have the same experience with my 2008.5 MS3GT.

Going up into my garage (very very slight incline), have to rev up a little just to get it to go. It will stall if I clutch out fast, but if I clutch out slow, I'm rolling backwards all the way down the driveway before I even get going.

I guess it's just something we will get used to.

For what it's worth, what you described would be my exact description. This is my first manual car, but have had others also comment that my car took quite a bit of gas in first to get it going, compared to their manual cars.

 

My new 08.5 MS3 will go without giving it gas. I just let the clutch out slow and it will roll forward at idle. In fact at lights and stop signs I usally engage the clutch without giving it gas because I seem to start smoother that way... if I try to give it gas at the same time I end up chirping the tires more often than not. I do have to let the clutch out slower than in other manuals I've driven.

But all of this could be that I'm not used to driving a manual and I don't have a feel for the clutch after driving it for only 2 days

 

So it seems that the name of the game is to really feather the clutch a lot when starting? So a natural followup question on that then is won't that wear out the clutch awfully fast? Not that I know what the expected lifetime of the stock clutch is but constantly feathering as much as I have to in this car makes me worry a bit. Normal and expected wear and tear or just an extra bill further down in the life of the car?

Glad I'm not the sole person experiencing this although if mine behaved the same way yours is zz99 I'd be one happy camper!

 

[quote author=Signas link=topic=121100.msg2554994#msg2554994 date=1219289470]
So it seems that the name of the game is to really feather the clutch a lot when starting? So a natural followup question on that then is won't that wear out the clutch awfully fast? Not that I know what the expected lifetime of the stock clutch is but constantly feathering as much as I have to in this car makes me worry a bit. Normal and expected wear and tear or just an extra bill further down in the life of the car?

Glad I'm not the sole person experiencing this although if mine behaved the same way yours is zz99 I'd be one happy camper!
[/quote]

I have wondered this very same question. In order to start smoothly, I have to feather the clutch. Hell in order to shift from 1-2, 2-3 smoothly, I have to feather the clutch a bit. Not nearly as much as starting off the line, but sometimes I yell out in frustration "short and slow with the left foot Crag" when I make a non-smooth shift into second. If I don't feather it, the ride is jerky...its the one thing that I do not like about this car. I've driven mine for 5500 miles in a lot of stop-and-go traffic, and I still can't say that I've mastered shifting it smoothly. The clutch and gas pedal are just so damned touchy when compared to the other manual cars I've owned (86 camry, 89 Hyundai excell, 95 Chevy 350 shortbed, 99 Honda civic).

Hopefully my clutch doesn't wear out too fast. My 99 civic that I owned since it was new still has the original clutch...and there is 140k on the tac! It hasn't slipped one bit. I'm not expecting that kind of performance out of this car, but if I chew one up every 20k...its gonna hurt my pocketbook!!!

 

It's pretty lame that you have to feather the clutch out to get smooth transition shifts, but I'm also in that same boat, don't you have an aftermarket motor mount though? I'm still on stock mount and it can be a pain in the butt to shit gently into 2nd from 1st, and 3rd from 2nd, at any rpm higher than 2K, the 2nd gear and 3rd gear shifts are somewhat rough...

 

[quote author=arkenzo link=topic=121100.msg2575902#msg2575902 date=1220028008]
It's pretty lame that you have to feather the clutch out to get smooth transition shifts, but I'm also in that same boat, don't you have an aftermarket motor mount though? I'm still on stock mount and it can be a pain in the butt to shit gently into 2nd from 1st, and 3rd from 2nd, at any rpm higher than 2K, the 2nd gear and 3rd gear shifts are somewhat rough...
[/quote]

Yeah I'm rolling with the SU mount atm, which makes it even harder to get off the line smoothly. If you don't give it the perfect amount of gas/clutch, the car will shudder. Like its letting you know that "hey... you fucked up! Next time do better." The margin of error is tiny too with the SU mount. The stocker feels much more forgiving.

The SU mount did increase shifting accuracy/rigidity and gave the car a solid, planted feel. You can definitely tell that the engine doesn't move around nearly as much. But you still have to feather the clutch for smooth transitions in 1-2, 2-3. I don't think there's any way to get around it, unless you just say screw it and let it jerk....which is probably harder on the drivetrain, but easier on your clutch.

 

I think that because it is a 6 speed that 1st gear is pretty steep so it tried to move the car faster than in a 5 speed. Mazda did this beacause of all the low end torque. Just a theory.

 

[quote author=Signas link=topic=121100.msg2554994#msg2554994 date=1219289470]
So it seems that the name of the game is to really feather the clutch a lot when starting? So a natural followup question on that then is won't that wear out the clutch awfully fast? [/quote]

If you're not giving it a lot of revs (<1500rpm) when you feather the clutch it won't do a lot of damage just for the second or so that you're feathering.

 

[quote author=PostmanPat link=topic=121100.msg2576333#msg2576333 date=1220037685]
[quote author=Signas link=topic=121100.msg2554994#msg2554994 date=1219289470]
So it seems that the name of the game is to really feather the clutch a lot when starting? So a natural followup question on that then is won't that wear out the clutch awfully fast? [/quote]

If you're not giving it a lot of revs (<1500rpm) when you feather the clutch it won't do a lot of damage just for the second or so that you're feathering.

[/quote]

I sure hope so . On a side note, but directly related to this thread...how soon did you guys replace your clutch? How many miles are you expecting to get out of it.

 

This clutch better last me for as long as I have the car.... :lol:

 

I too find this car harder to be smooth with than my old 3. But its not from a lack of low end torque, even if this motor doesn't have quite as much torque as the regular 3 does @ around 1000RPM, it has a much more aggressive first gear, it definitely puts more torque to the tires in first gear than a regular one. But the clutch is very grabby, and it goes from partial to full engagement very quickly where as the normal 3 you have more time to move off the clutch while the car starts rolling so it was easier to get rolling without any gas. I just give a tiny bit of gas in the Speed 3 every time I start because I don't like being a snail off the line anyway.

 

First off you shoudl never have to rev the engine higher then 1,100 RPMs, you just need to learn how to drive that car. If your bogging the engine when you try to start from a roll at 1,000 RPMs...then you need to give it more gas as you are letting out on the clutch. Giving more gas as you let the clutch out (do this coordinated...at the same time) will keep the engine from bogging.

Not sure how a manual Mz3 drives, however I know whenever you get into higher performing cars you are going to have stiffer/grabbier clutch's to handle the power. This could possible attribute to having to give more gas, the clutch probably grabs alot quicker then the Mz3.

I work as a valet and driving high performing cars such as dodge vipers, audi R8s, 08' Cobra GT500s, are quiet difficult just because the clutch is so stiff and grabs so quickly. After driving those cars, then hopping into a VW jetta with a stick, the jetta feels like the clutch is nothing but fuckin mush, and its pretty much impossible to stall it. Compaired to the sports cars, once the clutch starts to grab you better start adding gas or your gonna stall it if you let the clutch out another centimeter.

 

Word of advice, don't listen to AFcadet, he has absolutely no knowledge or clue on how to drive.

 

the mz3 is NA and it's 5 gears

ms3 is power limited in the first 3 gears-and probably with a sportier clutch

i learned manual on this car and sometimes a i get a smooth start without a feather but the grab is so precise that i think it'd take me a bit longer (1 year already) to get more natural.


my 2 cents and i am by no means an expert

 

You guys have gotta try this car with a RPMC inlet pipe combined with an SRI or CAI. Smooth,smooth and no herky jerky starts. It changed the low speed behavior of the MS3 among other things.

 

[quote author=arkenzo link=topic=121100.msg2578105#msg2578105 date=1220131784]
Word of advice, don't listen to AFcadet, he has absolutely no knowledge or clue on how to drive.
[/quote]

LOL whatever lets you sleep at night chief

 

I've noticed pulling out in 2nd is fairly easy and allows smoother starts and shifts.

 

A lot of it is just getting used to the clutch feel. I drove my 91 Mustang GT this weekend for the first time in a couple months, and I had to get used to it's clutch over again, even though I've had a Mustang for 15+ years.