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P0401, P2187, P2177

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12K views 28 replies 5 participants last post by  sumpirate  
#1 ·
Hi all. Have been getting a P0401 code popping up every now and then, didn't affect drivability that I noticed, so was waiting till I had a break where I could spend a day doing the EGR cleaning. Yesterday was drivin home on I-279 when trhe car bogged down suddenly under acceleration. Happened a few more times, then a CEL popped up, well, two more, actually. They are for system too lean at idel, and system too lean off idle. Went home, took off intercooler, TIP, battery box, etc. Spent most of the night getting it off, cleaning it out w/ Berryman's B-12, and reinstalling everything. I've been awake since Wed at 4:30 am, so please forgive me if I'm slow today, lol. Once everything back together, started it, let it idel for bit for MAF to re-adjust, took for spin.......seemed much better......No CEL...bogging/stuttering.....until on way to work this am. Getting the bogging/stuttering again under acceleration/load, but no codes thrown yet. From my sleep deprived search, I seemed to find some of the issues that may be at work.......misfire, .........purge valve stuck........or the fuel pump TSB issue.

How can I find if the fuel pump has been dealt with, either by the reflash, or new pump? WOuld it still be covered under the recall? It's an 07, and hit 75K yesterday. I haven't replaced the plugs, doubt PO did either (I bought car w/ 51K). Any suggestions are appreciated. Tough for me to log in during day (I'm a teacher), but I'll try to check back @ lunch. Thanks for your help, all.
 
#3 ·
Only started yesterday w/ sputtering, tank was below 1/4. I filled up (w/ 93) and then tore stuff apart last night. Did again w/ full tank this am. I'm newer to playin w/i forced induction.........can I clean out the purfge valve, or do i need to just buy \new one?
 
#6 ·
Just pulled plugs, don't look terrible...nice tan color....no black or carbon tracks.....but they do have 75K miles on them. Could a clogged fuel filter cause these symptoms? Or just try new purge valve first?
 
#8 ·
That's the plan. I work about 13 hours tomorrow (run concessions @ home games for Sr. Sponsor) so it's looking like Sat. morning. I reinstalled old plugs, spayed the MAF sensor as well. I did get a CEL on test drive, I'll get it scanned, see where that leads. Thanks for input, I appreciate it.
 
#10 ·
Funny thing a few threads down a guy had almost same problem as you.

His fix was an 02 sensor. As his post stated the O2 sensor tested good but was bad.

He also had to replace all his spark plugs.

Looks like you have a CAI as he did. He also did not have air straightener in his CAI.


http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=201882.0
 
#11 ·
Saw that thread, but thanks. Replaced the plugs, seems to be better. We got snow, so it's kinda hard to really get on it to see how it does under load, but I'll keep folks posted, and keep an eye on the O2. Thanks, all.
 
#12 ·
Hey man, I had this same problem a while back. Started one day after I filled up my tank, when I started my car it almost stalled out and happened EVERY time after I filled up my tank. Car was throwing a P2187 (lean at idle) CEL. Took it to the dealer and they thought it was the O2 sensor, but the car still did it after they replaced it. Took it back again and after doing some research I mentioned to them that I thought the purge valve was the source of the problem. Low and behold they replaced it and the cars been trouble free ever since then! Hope this helps.
 
#13 ·
So far, no CEL. Did have one minor stumble, but car was cold. Didn't do after that. If it happens again, may try to replace the purge valve. Thanks for feedback, all.
 
#14 ·
I shoulda knocked on wood after I made my post. Two days ago my CEL turned back on and what do ya know, throwing a P0401. And to make things better I had my inspection and emissions scheduled for Friday cause they expire at the end of this month! Now I get to go take it to the dealer Friday and see how long it takes to fix the thing. Hopefully before the end of the month :( Not really adding anything relevant to the thread, just sharing my frustration :moody:

SumPirate, did you ever actually do the EGR cleaning? If so, any differences? I'm thinking about doing this and maybe the EGR block-off.
 
#15 ·
Yes, did the EGR cleaning, before I tried replacing the plugs. seemed much better for litlle while, but the hesitation/stuttering came back. Still no CEL's, but feels like misfire (or mad pull of timing). Found an article about adjusting the purge valve, so may give that a try.

Pittsburgh, are you under warranty? If not, the EGR cleaning isn't too bad. Hardest part for me was removing battery tray. (Bolts so corroded that socket rounded off w/ little effort). Lemme know if you want to do it yourself, may be able to lend hand.
 
#16 ·
Thanks for the feedback sumpirate. Do you have a link to that article about purge valve adjustment? And I know what a PITA it is pulling the battery tray out, had to do it twice... and that was when it was warm out!

And yes, I'm at 46,xxx miles right now, so I'm still under warranty. Taking it up to the dealer tomorrow for an oil change and having them check the thing out while it's there. Hopefully it's easily resolved. If so then when the weather gets warmer I'm definitely planning on cleaning out the EGR regardless and maybe doing the blockout.

Sorry I'm not much help in your problem :( To me it sounds like you're having a fuel pump or O2 sensor problem like 222speed3 mentioned. I would imagine your dealer should be able to look up your VIN and see if the recall was performed on your car. When my purge valve went bad before, I never had hesitation or anything. Just crazy bad idle for the first ten seconds or so after I would fill up my tank (dip to like 200-300, almost stall out), but then it would resolve itself. In fact, after my light turned on this time, the car feels to be running even stronger. Weird.
 
#17 ·
Hi,

Were you driving my car las month?? :) :)

I just read this and I can tell you this. This was not cheap but DO replace the spark plugs and the O2 sensor. I also just installed the air straightener in my CAI and my LTFT and STFT are much better than before (shame on Mazda to release this intake w/o an air straightener due to the flow disturbance). Get the air straightener if you don't have one (SU sells the AEM one for $4.20 now + shipping)

Once you change this, reset the battery for 15 min and go for a drive...

Also, what about your coils? You changed the spark plugs but the culprit could easily be the wires/coils. Replace this first + Air straightener before the O2 replacement...

Do you have a way of measuring your fuel pressure levels?

Purge Valve will be next...

I hope this helps,
Carlos
 
#18 ·
No, did not replace coils. Not doubting you, but I've been running same CAI setup for 25K miles, since last Feb when I got it. Why would it just go crazy now (air straightener, not coils). Saw a thread about adjusting the purge valve, need to search and find it.

Unfortunately, no way to monitor fuel pressure, A/F ratio, or anything else. :( Just a boost gauge that came w/ car.
 
#19 ·
[quote author=sumpirate link=topic=202274.msg4178542#msg4178542 date=1327615301]
No, did not replace coils. Not doubting you, but I've been running same CAI setup for 25K miles, since last Feb when I got it. Why would it just go crazy now (air straightener, not coils). Saw a thread about adjusting the purge valve, need to search and find it.

Unfortunately, no way to monitor fuel pressure, A/F ratio, or anything else. :( Just a boost gauge that came w/ car.
[/quote]

I hear you... I have had my CAI for 45K miles (I installed it at 1.5K miles) and just recently added the straightener due to this issue. I never ever had a problem until one day (last XMAS) it will not go over 3K w/o major hesitation like it was missing fuel ...it will cut out... it was in fact very dangerous to drive it like this...and your symptoms sound very familiar...

If you can, get an "Ultragauge". It will give you lots of parameters and it costs about $60.00 It beats paying > $200 for a dashhawk...

Good luck
 
#20 ·
Adjusted purge valve, per instructions, no improvement. Still no CEL, but hesitation continues (does "feel" like fuel cut). Guess next step might be the O2 sensor. Is there a way to test one, hate to spend $$ on something else that won't help. Ordering air straightener tonight. :)
 
#21 ·
Just like the "stealer" manager told me... "We could not rule out the O2 sensor as it was not giving out any codes. Apparently it's working fine but I believe this is the issue. You need to replace the O2 sensor"...

In fact, I even told him..." if you know, and there is documentation about bad O2 sensors, why can't you replace this for free? The only thing you are doing is swapping parts".... and then I was amazed by his answer...."We have looked at the database, and it says that even though there are no failure codes, the O2 sensor is the problem. We know it's a problem on these cars"...

I don't know if you have a friend with a MS3, swap the coils and see what happens... If not, you need to change the O2 sensor, no question about it...

BTW, did you gap the spark plugs correctly?
 
#22 ·
Pololo,
Yeah, I did gap them correctly, but took a bit. I got Autolite Iridiums, and they call for a different gap than the Denso or NGK's, something with being a Fine-wire. But they are gapped to Spec, .050 IIRC.

Gonna try O2 I guess. BTW, the air straightener isn't $4.20, lol. Would have been nice for that price.

If it were a coil issue, I would expect a code to appear, even a flashing CEL for a misfire.

It's a bummer, between Konis, new endlinks, new tires, alignment, and plugs in the last month, I've shelled out a decent chunk of change. (Sorry, had to whine a little bit :lol:)
 
#23 ·
Was playing around a bit more, finally got a CEL, for P0441. So I pulled the purge valve, and applied 12V to the terminals. Nothing, no airflow thru it at all. Adjusted the screw inside the valve the back and forth, still no airflow. Before I get a new one, applying power to the purge vlave should make it open, correct? Thanks for all input, I appreciate it.
 
#24 ·
[quote author=sumpirate link=topic=202274.msg4179303#msg4179303 date=1327775824]
Was playing around a bit more, finally got a CEL, for P0441. So I pulled the purge valve, and applied 12V to the terminals. Nothing, no airflow thru it at all. Adjusted the screw inside the valve the back and forth, still no airflow. Before I get a new one, applying power to the purge vlave should make it open, correct? Thanks for all input, I appreciate it.
[/quote]

Yes, it should... unless it needs a load to force it open. The good thing is that you got a code so you are getting closer to get this fixed.

Let us know how you are progressing.

Carlos
 
#25 ·
FYI: Just got my purge valve replaced at the dealer on Friday. This cleared the P0441 CEL I had. I was getting horrid gas mileage as well with the bad purge valve...just a little over 200 miles and already on E. And I haven't been driving the car hard or beating on it, and my work commute is 90% highway. Lets see if the purge valve did the trick.

Sumpirate, if you do end up replacing the purge valve, let us know how much it is. I had to pay $100 deductible (extended warranty), but on the receipt the price was listed as $130-$140ish. I thought these were cheaper? Hopefully you get this sorted out soon.
 
#26 ·
Should be in today when I get home from school. It was $26.99 at Autozone. Hopefully it helps, they want over $350 for an O2 sensor!!!! I know it's a wideband, but DAMN!!!!