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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I got a response from my dealer that they contacted mazda:

" I received your email requests and Mazda doesn’t recommend that you change your oil with synthetic. If you do decide to change your oil with synthetic oil you can make a appointment with our service department for a oil change, and bring in 5 quarts of synthetic oil with you so we could perform that for you. Thank You."

Hmm, do they mean that they recommend against using it? Or that they do reccomend non-synthetic. Or that the dealer just wants to make money on their oil? So confused...
 

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they want you to use their oil, which probably doesn't include synthetic as an option..

why would u want to buy the oil and have them put it in? that service had better be at a discounted price!
 

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Hard to see how it could have any negative effects.
 

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When I take my car in to get serviced, I'm going to ask about the price difference between synthetic and regular. If it's not a huge difference, I'm totally going synthetic. That Castrol Syntex commercial officially sold me.
 

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So if it's a highly refined motor oil, how does it work so much better than regular motor oil in longevity? And does that mean Mobil1 is even better?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Mobil1

Hmm, i can't find anything that says syntec isn't synthetic, but if i go mobil 1, the only offering they recommend is 0w-20.

this is getting to nerve racking for me. I could imagine what too thin a motor oil could do negativly...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
From Castrol Syntec site...

Here is a snippet from the castol syntec site's "Myth & Fact" section:

"Fact: Even if you've switched to a premium synthetic motor oil like Castrol Syntec, "

This statement would seem to indicate that castrol syntec is a premium synthetic motor oil, no?
 

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Well this will tell you something. In Europe Syntec is not allowed to be marketed as a "synthetic".

Here in the U.S. Mobil tried to stop Castrol, Penzoil, etc. from selling their motor oils as "Synthetic" but they successfully argued that "synthetic" is primarily a marketing term and they could use it if they wanted to.

Generally, the base stock separates the men from the boys when it comes to oil. You want something with a polyalphaolefin (PAO) base stock.

Check out this link, It's from a Mobil1 competitor and not generally complimentary of Mobil1 but it does list some of the technical issues.

Here's a snippet.
The primary downside to the NAD ruling and any resulting replacement of PAOs with VHVIs, says Svoboda, “is that North American PCMO consumers will not be getting the higher quality performance level offered by the PAO. Despite claims of equivalent performance, PAO continues to maintain its superior performance over Group IIIs under extreme operating conditions, particularly with regard to low-temperature performance and high-temperature oxidative stability.”
From another Mobil competitor: link
Bait and switch? That's the obvious conclusion. Except in this case the advertising ethics people have given their approval.

Here's what happened, according to a detailed account published in the trade magazine Lubricants World. Late in 1997, Castrol changed the formula of its Syntec "full synthetic motor oil", eliminating the polyalphaolefin (PAO) base stock (that's the "synthetic" part, which makes up about 70% by volume of what's in the bottle) and replacing it with a "hydroisomerized" petroleum base stock.

Mobil Oil Corporation, maker of Mobil 1, "Worlds Leading Synthetic Motor Oil," said no fair and took its complaint to the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus. NAD often arbitrates between feuding advertisers on their conflicting claims.

The notion behind synthetic motor oils as we've known them is an elegant one. Instead of relying on the cocktail of hydrocarbons contained in crude oil, why not go into the laboratory and build the perfect base stock from scratch, molecule by molecule, and builds it till it gets 10-carbon molecules, then combines three of those to form PAO. The result is a fluid more stable than the usual base oils derived from crude. It keeps flowing at low temperatures. It's more resistant to boiling off, and more resistant to oxidation, which causes thickening with prolonged exposure to high temperatures.

Still, there's more than one road to the point B of improved stability. Petroleum refiners in recent years have learned how to break apart certain undesirable molecules - wax, for example, which causes thickening of oil at low temperatures- and transform them by chemical reaction into helpful molecules. These new hydroisomerized base oils, in the view of some industry participants provided properties similar to PAO's but only cost half as much," Lubricants World reported.

The argument before NAD tiptoed around the obvious- does the consumer get four bucks' worth of value from each quart of synthetic oil?- and plunged straight into deep semantics. Mobil's experts said "synthetic" traditionally meant big molecules built up from small ones. Castrol's side held out for a looser description, defining "synthetic" as "the product of an intended chemical reaction."

What do unbiased sources say? It turns out that the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) and the American Petroleum Institute (API) both have technical standards covering motor oils, and both of these organizations in the '90's backed away from their old definitions of "synthetic," leaving lots of room for new interpretations.

In the end, NAD decided that the evidence constitutes a reasonable basis for the claim that Castrol Syntec, as currently formulated, is a synthetic motor oil, said Lubricants World.
Really I'm not a basher of Castrol, and I used nothing but Castrol GTX and Syntec in my cars for more than 15 years until I found out about the formula change.

I should also note that Mobil1 made a formula change a couple years ago, but they are sill using a PAO base stock. Mobil claims that this change was required to meet the new API SL srevice grade (what the Mazda3 requires) and that the new oil is better than the old. There is some question as to whether that's true, as the new stuff has a higher pour point but the consensus seems to be that Mobil1 is still the only major marketed true synthetic and the best oil for the money. (Amsoil, Redline & Royal Purple are VERY expensive)
 

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Re: Mobil1

BuffaloZoom said:
Hmm, i can't find anything that says syntec isn't synthetic, but if i go mobil 1, the only offering they recommend is 0w-20.

this is getting to nerve racking for me. I could imagine what too thin a motor oil could do negativly...
I've decided to go with Mobil1 5w30
 

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Castrol Syntec is a Full-Synthetic oil. The Syntec blend is not. Valvoline also makes a good Full-Synthetic oil which I have used in the past.

I use Mobil 1 in my Z and my wifes G35 Sedan. Mobil 1 will be going in my MZ3 at 3K miles.
 

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raitchison said:
CarbonZ said:
Castrol Syntec is a Full-Synthetic oil.
Based only on Castrol's definition, In Europe Castrol is not allowed to sell Syntec as a "Synthetic"

Look at the info in my post above.
Castrol sells 2 syntecs. One is Full-synthetic and one is a blend.
 

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Just because Castrol says it's "Synthetic" doesn't mean it is.

Castrol Syntec, that they refer to as "Full Synthetic" is most definitely NOT a true synthetic and hasn't been since the late 90s

It's NOT PAO or Ester based it's mineral based.
It's NOT a Group IV oil (it used to be and Mobil1 still is) it's a Group III oil.

The Syntec Blend is a mix of non-synthetic Syntec and ordinary mineral oil.

I could piss in a quart bottle and slap a "full synthetic" label on it if I wanted to but that doesn't make it synthetic.
 

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I have already switched to synthetic(Mobil 1 5W-30), the first 2 oil changes I used a dura blend, and o nthe past change I put in the Mobil 1 and it has been in for about 600 miles now and its running great.
 

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I've used it in all my cars with good results. The thing with synthetic oil is that once you use it you should keep using it. It won't hurt anything switching back and forth, but you kind of defeat the purpose of using synthetic. From what I've seen there is no evidence of increased lubrication, but there is alot of proof that it performs better under extreme temperatures. No car dealer I know recommends synthetic oils, other than exotics probably. Bottom line...I'll be using it in mine. :D
 

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do you just tell the dealer to put in synthetic or do you gotta buy it and them tell them to put it in/
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
weight/viscosity

Would a 5w-30 decrease the gas mileage benifits compared to a 5w-20? Even if it's synthetic? What damage might i cause by running 0w-20 synthetic as mobil1 reccomends for 5w-20 engines?

also, why does mazda's schedule 2 (harder) only recommend oil change every 5k miles? I've been beginning to think the 3k mile thing is the same mental manipulation that premium gas has on people...
 

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I think oil changes every 3k was needed way back but the motors and the oil have gotten progressively better over time. I've seen manufacturers call for oil changes only every 7500 miles now.

I'm one of those rubes that changes every 3k or so but I'm paranoid and occationally bounce off the rev limiter when autocrossing.
 
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