[tuckaloe]

Something I keep running into when considering modifying my MS3......if the current standard of 288whp and 310wtq via XEDE is possible on stock ms3...and the limits of the turbo are thus far considered to be 300whp.......you're done before you add a single piece of bolt on hardware. One and done.


Now then, what happens when we add the hardware in conjuction with the software? I feel confident that it will still yield improvements, but......not as dramatic? Hard to see where adding a CAI doesn't help out alot since it's showing pretty dramatic improvement wtih stock programming, but there will be a point where that k04 snail can't huff another molecule of air no matter how much air is available to it.

Not sure where I'm headed with this, just airing some thoughts that keep bouncing around in my head. Hardware will improve responsiveness and perhaps adds 500rpms to the usable rev range, but these are just guesses and small improvements vs the software.

Whaddya think?

 

[AG DesignWorks]

It's not all about high horsepower. Driveability and power Useability are key for me.

I would rather have 250 whp from 3000-6000 than 300whp at 5500 only.

The reasons you give are why i'll be waiting for the accessport. With each bolt-on, i should be able to download a new map that will take those gains from the mod and maximize their impact on overall performance. With smaller engines it's all about efficiency, not just about getting the biggest numbers.

It also has a lot to do with personal preferrence. I'm not 17 any more, and i dont want a booming exhaust, super-stiff ride, and a sneezing BOV, it's a daily driver, not a track car. I have to drive to work every day and dont want a headache when i get there. There are also mods that i find to be overkill, because again, it's not all about big hp for me, just useable hp.

Me personally, i plan on an accessport, and intake, then cosmetic and interior stuff until my warranty is up. After that, we'll see, but i prefer under-the-radar mods on my daily driver.

 

[dread]

I couldn't agree more, by the way I don't think the xede gets 288whp in an otherwise stock car, the dyno was done with the airbox open and possibly with an aftermarket tmic. At least that is what seems to be the case from what I have read.

 

[tuckaloe]

[quote author=AG DesignWorks link=topic=69308.msg1202195#msg1202195 date=1171292840]
It's not all about high horsepower. Driveability and power Useability are key for me.

True enough, though these aren't high strung normally aspirated engines we're talking about. Hard NOT to make fat midrange torque with these little turbos.
I would rather have 250 whp from 3000-6000 than 300whp at 5500 only.

I follow your logic here but isn't that what the torque curve already provides?

The reasons you give are why i'll be waiting for the accessport. With each bolt-on, i should be able to download a new map that will take those gains from the mod and maximize their impact on overall performance. With smaller engines it's all about efficiency, not just about getting the biggest numbers.

Agreed.

It also has a lot to do with personal preferrence. I'm not 17 any more, and i dont want a booming exhaust, super-stiff ride, and a sneezing BOV, it's a daily driver, not a track car. I have to drive to work every day and dont want a headache when i get there. There are also mods that i find to be overkill, because again, it's not all about big hp for me, just useable hp.

Again, agreed. I'm a middle aged guy going to work. I autoX a few weekends a year, hit the strip a few times a year, but live with the car every single day. Though it could be argued that we passed "useable hp" when the car was built :lol:
personally, i plan on an accessport, and intake, then cosmetic and interior stuff until my warranty is up. After that, we'll see, but i prefer under-the-radar mods on my daily driver.
[/quote]

My likely path as well :goodjob:

 

[ClickHeRe]

[quote author=AG DesignWorks link=topic=69308.msg1202195#msg1202195 date=1171292840]

Me personally, i plan on an accessport, and intake, then cosmetic and interior stuff until my warranty is up. After that, we'll see, but i prefer under-the-radar mods on my daily driver.

[/quote]

I'm in the same boat minus the intake. The other part I might do if I have disposable income is change the body kit for that Tokyo show yellow car kit.

 

[MS3 Hot Hatch]

I believe that the gains from the CAI and sport exhaust are more than satisfying. When you mess with the programming, fuel consumption deteriorates. The CAI is rumored to add some fuel efficiency. The change on fuled comsuption impacts the environment. The noise from the exhaust too as noise is a kind of contamination, but does not impact emmissions unless you are talking about the race pipe, which I believe is environmentally irresponsible. I would never take a Cat out and place a race pipe in its place, but that's just me. My favorite mods are the CAI, the exhaust and the short shifter and busshings. I'm so waiting for that short shifter. The CAI and the exhaust are rumored to add 500 RPMs, which for me enhances the driving experience. My wife does not want me to install replace the exhaust because it hurts conversation and she has a point, but for me its free music.

 

[tuckaloe]

My experiences with changing programming is that it *improves* mileage. The catch is you want to use the newfound power more frequently so it deteriorates through enthusiasm, same as an intake and exhaust, and not the software.

From the dyno charts we've seen with AFR, it won't be hard to improve mpg on these cars.....I even wondered if the factory purposely made these cars run rich with the intention of them leaning when the CAI and ex is added. Not likely, but I like to consider it anyway since we'll never know the reality....but I love the idea of adding another 500rpms to the powerband with the Mazdaspeed CAI and ex.

I suspect that the CAI and exhaust alone would, infact, be very worthwhile upgrades in their own right with little else in the way of mods. And would maintain some warranty if you do infact go Mazdaspeed parts. Very nice. But the programming represents much greater value per hp/lb ft gained.

Funny, I've never owned a car that was unique and early enough in the production cycle that there were so few mods and dyno charts out there. It's a somewhat unique circumstance....

 

[AG DesignWorks]

MS3Hatch: Yep, forgot about the short shifter, i'll definitely be looking for a few of those to hit the market soon.

tuckaloe: agreeed, my last car, an SVT focus, had been out for 2 years when i bought mine new, so there were already a plethora of mods available. It's exciting to see the parts come to market though. Hopefully, shops and tuners will continue to explore this. It helps that the Speed6 has been out for a while, and that our engine is shared with the CX-7 means a larger market for tuners to address all 3 cars.

 

[nutari]

[quote author=dread link=topic=69308.msg1202213#msg1202213 date=1171293339]
I couldn't agree more, by the way I don't think the xede gets 288whp in an otherwise stock car, the dyno was done with the airbox open and possibly with an aftermarket tmic. At least that is what seems to be the case from what I have read.
[/quote]

280 whp and 310 tq from mine.

 

[nutari]

[quote author=AG DesignWorks link=topic=69308.msg1202195#msg1202195 date=1171292840]
It's not all about high horsepower. Driveability and power Useability are key for me.

I would rather have 250 whp from 3000-6000 than 300whp at 5500 only.

The reasons you give are why i'll be waiting for the accessport. With each bolt-on, i should be able to download a new map that will take those gains from the mod and maximize their impact on overall performance. With smaller engines it's all about efficiency, not just about getting the biggest numbers.

It also has a lot to do with personal preferrence. I'm not 17 any more, and i dont want a booming exhaust, super-stiff ride, and a sneezing BOV, it's a daily driver, not a track car. I have to drive to work every day and dont want a headache when i get there. There are also mods that i find to be overkill, because again, it's not all about big hp for me, just useable hp.

Me personally, i plan on an accessport, and intake, then cosmetic and interior stuff until my warranty is up. After that, we'll see, but i prefer under-the-radar mods on my daily driver.
[/quote]


Look at my dyno graphs. Torque is there at 3000-4500. 250 hp is at 4000-4500 rpms.

 

[nutari]

[quote author=tuckaloe link=topic=69308.msg1202128#msg1202128 date=1171289874]
Now then, what happens when we add the hardware in conjuction with the software? I feel confident that it will still yield improvements, but......not as dramatic? Hard to see where adding a CAI doesn't help out alot since it's showing pretty dramatic improvement wtih stock programming, but there will be a point where that k04 snail can't huff another molecule of air no matter how much air is available to it.
[/quote]

I agree. By doing bolt ons first, you are doing what the programmer is doing for you already. Leaning the car out. If you get the XEDE first (Or ANY programmer) any bolt ons you add after that will not give you the advertised power. Lets take the Turbo XS downpipe for example. They claim 30whp. If you were to put that on my car with the XEDE already installed, it would add maybe 10whp. With a XEDE re-tune, maybe 15-20.

 

[tuckaloe]

280 whp and 310 tq from mine.
[/quote]

Nutari,
Is your dyno an otherwise stock MS3? I'm sure you've mentioned it somewhere here previously but I can't recall :dur:

 

[nutari]

[quote author=tuckaloe link=topic=69308.msg1202647#msg1202647 date=1171307173]

280 whp and 310 tq from mine.
[/quote]

Nutari,
Is your dyno an otherwise stock MS3? I'm sure you've mentioned it somewhere here previously but I can't recall :dur:
[/quote]

only mod that matters is the TMIC.

the 18 dyno runs in 3 hours proves how well that works.

 

[redms3gt]

I just got a Air tem sensor and mouted it to the metal pipe right after the intercooler and it does heat up quite a bit after shutting the car off but under all driving 20+mph even under very hard driving the intercooler does not heat up more than 3-4 deg more that cruising. About 10-12deg above ambient temps. If its 30 then the temp are usally like 40-43. If I park for 30min they go up to 100-110. Opon driving they steadaly drop to 10+amb in about 5-10min. Technically the temp sensor is for an amp and is only reading the outside of pipe but it gives some kind of temp relative to air temp. Just not as responsive. Even with 120 deg of temp after parking the car feels essentially the same though. Maybe 5-10 loss. I think it boosts a little more when its hot to maintain simular Hp levels. Even with an upgraded TMI I would think heatsoak would be the same when parked but it would cool quit a bit faster apon driving. A frontmout could pick up some nice gains but not really worth the hassle IMO. Stock turbo anyway. Front what I can tell it does heat soak much under stock boost levels. Any opinions. I know the upgraded TMI has much better flow and it likely where most of the extra HP come from.

 

[PEFX-Speed3]

Hey man nice car... i like those gauges got any more pics?? my car is basicaly stock i just put a turbo tmer on today and i have a intake and downpipe on order.....I noticed that you are in greensboro i was wondering what part because i live like 25 min from winston well maybe we can meet up sometime

 

[MS3 Hot Hatch]

[quote author=Nutari link=topic=69308.msg1202654#msg1202654 date=1171307283]
[quote author=tuckaloe link=topic=69308.msg1202647#msg1202647 date=1171307173]

280 whp and 310 tq from mine.
[/quote]

Nutari,
Is your dyno an otherwise stock MS3? I'm sure you've mentioned it somewhere here previously but I can't recall :dur:
[/quote]

only mod that matters is the TMIC.

the 18 dyno runs in 3 hours proves how well that works.
[/quote]

Nutari,

As a sponsor, you stand to make money selling the TMIC upgrade. I have been thinking about only the short shifter with bussings, the CAI and exhaust for upgrades so far. Are there plans to make the TMIC upgrade that looks better? Is it really 20whps more?

 

[nutari]

[quote author=MS3 Hot Hatch link=topic=69308.msg1204453#msg1204453 date=1171379158]
Nutari,

As a sponsor, you stand to make money selling the TMIC upgrade. I have been thinking about only the short shifter with bussings, the CAI and exhaust for upgrades so far. Are there plans to make the TMIC upgrade that looks better? Is it really 20whps more?
[/quote]

Here..

[quote author=Nutari link=topic=69308.msg1202592#msg1202592 date=1171305682]
I agree. By doing bolt ons first, you are doing what the programmer is doing for you already. Leaning the car out. If you get the XEDE first (Or ANY programmer) any bolt ons you add after that will not give you the advertised power. Lets take the Turbo XS downpipe for example. They claim 30whp. If you were to put that on my car with the XEDE already installed, it would add maybe 10whp. With a XEDE re-tune, maybe 15-20.
[/quote]


Could you also define 'looks better' please.

Thank you.
:shock:

 

[MS3 Hot Hatch]

[quote author=Nutari link=topic=69308.msg1204918#msg1204918 date=1171398407]
[quote author=MS3 Hot Hatch link=topic=69308.msg1204453#msg1204453 date=1171379158]
Nutari,

As a sponsor, you stand to make money selling the TMIC upgrade. I have been thinking about only the short shifter with bussings, the CAI and exhaust for upgrades so far. Are there plans to make the TMIC upgrade that looks better? Is it really 20whps more?
[/quote]

Here..

[quote author=Nutari link=topic=69308.msg1202592#msg1202592 date=1171305682]
I agree. By doing bolt ons first, you are doing what the programmer is doing for you already. Leaning the car out. If you get the XEDE first (Or ANY programmer) any bolt ons you add after that will not give you the advertised power. Lets take the Turbo XS downpipe for example. They claim 30whp. If you were to put that on my car with the XEDE already installed, it would add maybe 10whp. With a XEDE re-tune, maybe 15-20.
[/quote]


Could you also define 'looks better' please.

Thank you.
:shock:
[/quote]

I like the black cover on the factory TMIC with the "MZR 2.3 DISI Turbo" logo on it. The upgrade looks like a larger piece of aluminum thrown in there by a back alley tuner shop. At least that's what I have seen in pictures. The pictures even show the welding scars, etc. I guess that it's just a matter of taste. Are there plans to smooth out the looks of the upgrade. The Autoexe Sports TMIC looks smoother, but how do we get one of those?

 

[nutari]

[quote author=MS3 Hot Hatch link=topic=69308.msg1205007#msg1205007 date=1171399748]
I like the black cover on the factory TMIC with the "MZR 2.3 DISI Turbo" logo on it. The upgrade looks like a larger piece of aluminum thrown in there by a back alley tuner shop. At least that's what I have seen in pictures. The pictures even show the welding scars, etc. I guess that it's just a matter of taste. Are there plans to smooth out the looks of the upgrade. The Autoexe Sports TMIC looks smoother, but how do we get one of those?
[/quote]

I am sorry that you feel that way, and i would guess you are in the minority. The work done by the fabrication company is top notch and the owner has a high reputation for quality. It is not merely stamped out on an assembly line with low grade materials. This work is done with high grade materials and much better intercooler cores. These are made a unit at a time more or less.

We can get the AutoEXE model as we are an AutoEXE dealer, however its core does not have the size, design or cooling benefits of this one and is four times more the price for what would be an equal but probably lesser performing intercooler.

Sacrificing the MZR cover is the price of a thicker and larger intercooler core which lends a great deal to the gains stated. The picture on mazda3online.com is the one in my personal car and the one we sell now. It is indeed a matter of taste however we do feel it looks very good."

 

[1967abarth]

My Speed3 is back at BEGi for some additions including an intercooler. They build their own intercoolers and the welding work is outstanding. I have used their intercoolers before. I will post pictures as soon as I get the car back with their additions.