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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all. So I have had my ms3 for about 5 mos, love it, currently have it torn apart for a carputer/stereo install, etc. Ever since I have owned it, though, I have felt like the driving feel of the throttle and clutch is a bit off. Specifically, I often have a hard time getting a real smooth shift from 1st to second -- it feels almost as though the throttle doesn't come in until the pedal is depressed for a half second or so, and it causes a quick torquey jump. This isn't turbo lag I don't think, just talking about basic around-town driving. I have had manual trans cars my whole driving life, and not an expert but I do feel like I know how to drive a car with a bit of power. Similarly, when I'm flooring it for example on a highway, it feels like the throttle cuts in and out ever so slightly a bit -- nothing bad, but just doesn't feel quite right.

How "normal" does that sound? I have read about folsk flashing their ecus and getting better "driveability", but don't know exactly what that means, and dont know how much of this is me and how much is the car.

Apologies for the likely confusing explanation, just love the car but feel like its a bit jumpy sometimes.

Thanks...

W
 

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Yep, unfortunately this is normal. DBW often makes for a slightly delayed throttle response.
Just something to get used to I guess.
 

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to fix the shifting ...you need to get a short throw shifter.
or the shifter base bushings atleast.

I hope you are rev matching when shifting.
 

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when your not using the turbo...this car isnt going to drive like a "powerful" car. When your not in boost the car is just a regular ol' 2.3 inline 4.

and the cutting in and out in 4th can be a number of things...it could be boost cut...it could be low fuel pressure...it could be knock...

you need to be alot more specific on how it feels.
 

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[quote author=NoobInACan link=topic=139432.msg3006205#msg3006205 date=1237557058]

I hope you are rev matching when shifting.

[/quote]

Dude he's talking about a 1-2 shift...not exactly the proper circumstance for rev matching...
 

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i wont say i rev match with 1-2 shift, but i def give more gas than i should have to, if not the shift is always jerky. something ive got use to, i think its just the nature of the clutch, not rly anything to do with the shifter. im sure a shorter shifter will help you get in gear faster so your rev dosent fall as fast, but for stock the 1-2 shift is crap.
 

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You have to let the rpms drop a lot for the 1-2 shift. I don't think a short shifter will help that much
 

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Yeah, this is something that really annoys me about this car. My other car is a 93' Eclipse Turbo, it has a similar sized turbo on it, and makes similar HP to my speed3 and yet it has MUCH faster throttle response, and doesn't require you to push the pedal as far down to heel-toe or blip for downshifts. I barely have to touch the throttle in my eclipse to blip it for a downshift, but in the speed3 I have to punch it down at least 3/4 to achieve the same thing.

The reason for this is the way the e-throttle on the speed3 is tuned. They tuned it to smooth out fast small inputs for better emissions and easier driveability in slow moving traffic (for people who suck at driving). I remember an article in SCC about this topic. Before E-throttles they had to use a complicated dual stage throttle body or a shrouded throttle body to achieve similar results. Look at the throttlebody on an 86' CRX Si. It has two throttle plates, a tiny one that opens first, then a second one that opens after the tiny one is wide open. Same reasoning. To make it easer to modulate the throttle smoothly when driving at low speeds in traffic. Now with e-throttles it's easier and cheaper for them to do it, and fortunately... easier for us to get rid of this crappy tuning strategy. I think the cobb AP either has or will have the ability to retune e-throttle curves. There's also aftermarket "black boxes" that plug in between the TPS and the ECU and retune the throttle curve... but a reflash is a much better solution.

BTW.... how are you all rev matching while UPshifting? I usually only do it while DOWNshifting. Letting the RPM's drop is fine during normal driving... but makes your shifts grandma-like when you're trying to go fast. I've always just popped it into the next higher gear and let the clutch out. I never wore out a transmission doing it that way. :dunno:
 

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[quote author=destrux link=topic=139432.msg3007543#msg3007543 date=1237591673]

BTW.... how are you all rev matching while UPshifting? I usually only do it while DOWNshifting. Letting the RPM's drop is fine during normal driving... but makes your shifts grandma-like when you're trying to go fast. I've always just popped it into the next higher gear and let the clutch out. I never wore out a transmission doing it that way. :dunno:
[/quote]

...this is what I was getting at. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Lots of good info. Two followup questions:

a) does anyone have first-hand experience with the throttle performance/curve improving with the cobb accesspoint maps, or other ecu flashes?

b) has anyone done the ground-wire replacement/addition/cleanup (main wire from block and battery to body ground in the engine bay), and seen a change in the throttle not cutting out any longer? I've read a few folks saying this...

Thanks!
 

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I love my AP, the day i put it on i fell in love with the car all over again, think its the best mod ive down so far. you def have to be responsible with it and monitor though, but its a big gain. it may not be huge numbers on the dyno, but there is more overall power and you pull past 5500 without falling off the power band.

My buddy did the ground replacement on his MZ3 and it helped him alot there, haven't done it on my speed so cant tell you there.
 

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[quote author=willmeyer link=topic=139432.msg3005583#msg3005583 date=1237515270]
Hey all. So I have had my ms3 for about 5 mos, love it, currently have it torn apart for a carputer/stereo install, etc. Ever since I have owned it, though, I have felt like the driving feel of the throttle and clutch is a bit off. Specifically, I often have a hard time getting a real smooth shift from 1st to second -- it feels almost as though the throttle doesn't come in until the pedal is depressed for a half second or so, and it causes a quick torquey jump. This isn't turbo lag I don't think, just talking about basic around-town driving. I have had manual trans cars my whole driving life, and not an expert but I do feel like I know how to drive a car with a bit of power. Similarly, when I'm flooring it for example on a highway, it feels like the throttle cuts in and out ever so slightly a bit -- nothing bad, but just doesn't feel quite right.

How "normal" does that sound? I have read about folsk flashing their ecus and getting better "driveability", but don't know exactly what that means, and dont know how much of this is me and how much is the car.

Apologies for the likely confusing explanation, just love the car but feel like its a bit jumpy sometimes.

Thanks...

W
[/quote]

i had the same problem until i started to release the clutch slowly. when shifting into 2, release the clutch until it starts to catch, at the same time, give it some gas then slowly release the clutch. i dont ever get the "torquey jump" anymore when shifting from one to two.
 

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I have the same issue here, and usually do the same as the above poster.

My only worry is that doing so is going to shorten our clutch lifetime. Slowly letting out the clutch is allowing it to be partially engaged for a longer period of time, which contributes to more wear per shift from my understanding.
 

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[quote author=craghack link=topic=139432.msg3015030#msg3015030 date=1237940506]
I have the same issue here, and usually do the same as the above poster.

My only worry is that doing so is going to shorten our clutch lifetime. Slowly letting out the clutch is allowing it to be partially engaged for a longer period of time, which contributes to more wear per shift from my understanding.
[/quote]

yea... but the cost of a new clutch is not that much if you do it yourself. and i would shorten the life of the clutch a little bit for added comfort and added smoothness on the engine.
 

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The cobb ap definately helps throttle response. And yes makes heel - toe easier
 

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Replace that plastic origami tube with any turbo inlet and low speed driving improves big time.
 

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that torque "bump" is likely the slack being taken out of your motor mount when you go from off throttle to on-throttle driving. if you roll onto the throttle a little slower it should be a bit better. also for low rpm shifts, i have to remember to pull my foot all the way off the gas pedal until the clutch is out, and take my time shifting. if you quick shift the revs won't drop enough and it'll jump a bit when you let out the clutch.

for those of you saying that the drive by wire throttle lags behind the pedal must not have a boost gauge installed. i thought the same before, but i can see the boost gauge moving with zero noticeable delay from me moving the gas pedal. the difference the OP notices between the ms3 and his DSM is probably due more to the 4g63 having a lighter flywheel, smaller displacement, and probably a much freer flowing intake and exhaust than the DISI does.
 
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