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**SUSPENSION GUIDE** Mazdaspeed3 MS3 (What's available, specs, user impressions)

106K views 43 replies 25 participants last post by  noobinacan 
#1 ·
This thread is a work in progress, to try and gather all the Mazdaspeed3 MS3 shock/spring/coilover/swaybar info that is scattered all over the net into one place.

I have been wading through all this stuff and there was so much info I couldn't remember it all, sometimes I cant even find where I saw the information initially.

I needed a place to collect, store, and organize all the info, this is the place.
It is kind of a suspension decision guide for me, I just thought I would make it public, so others can use it too.

I am by no means a suspension expert, I am just gathering information from manufacturers and users and putting it in one place.

Right now it doesn't contain everything and is not as organized as I would like it.
I will be adding stuff over the weeks as I come across it, hope you will help too, by posting your setups driving impressions compared to stock.
I hope that eventually this thread will become a place where someone can come and find specs and user driving impressions both good and bad of all the suspension options that will fit the Mazdaspeed3.

Feel free to post any info you find while browsing or your own comments on your particular setup, include as much info as you can, specs, drop, spring rates, and especially driving impressions if you have them or find them.

I will copy and paste in the appropriate place, to keep it organized and prevent anyone from having to wade through the whole thread to find what they want.

The order is:

Coilovers A-K
Coilovers L-Z
Shocks/Struts/Dampers
Springs
Swaybars
Matched Sets
Mix and Match



COILOVERS A-K

General Coilover comments:
smokinAMD:
I think coilovers are a little out of the question for me, having had vehicles with them in the past, I found myself never really taking advantage of the one thing coilovers offer over springs, and that is the fact they are complete adjustably. I always found myself dropping the car to a suitable level, and never really changing it after that for track days or anything. Coilovers are also stupid expensive, and you have more things to concern yourself with, such as if they break, valves go out, or the seals inside them start to leak. You can't just get a new one locally and be on your way the same day, no, you have to send the coilover out to the manufacturer and have it rebuilt. That part kind of sucks, also sucks that you have to take both sides of the car back to stock if you intend to drive it while its getting fixed. With springs, the only thing you really have to worry about is a strut going out, and if that were to happen, it really isn't a big deal, you can still drive it around until you get a new strut which is cheap. Also saves time as you only have to tear apart one side of the car, not both.

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AUTOEXE

http://www.autoexe.co.jp/english/functional/functional%20detail.html#suspension%20top

AutoExe Sports Tunable Suspension Kit
A full length height adjustable suspension kit that puts sports performance first with features like a hard setting mono tube damper and linear rate race spring, and an aluminum upper mount with enhanced bush*. Without interfering with cooling performance, the newly developed thin φ40 piston reduces friction surface, which decreases friction during damper operation. This has the effect of facilitating uniform handling while simultaneously restricting discomfort. The damping force is adjustable in 12 levels. Overhaul is possible.

Rates: 560F/224R (lb/in)
Height: ?
Price (MSRP): $2,450
Adjustable: Height, Dampening (?)

Comments found:
AutoEXE coilovers use the stupidest spring rates I've ever seen. The car will have excessive understeer.

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BC COILOVERS

http://www.bcracing-na.com/products/mazda.html

Spring rates:
Front: 180.62.008
Rear 180.62.004
Not sure what these rate numbers mean, they are straight from the manufacturer but have no units and dont make sense to me, if you know let me know.

MazdaSteve3:
I just ordered a set of BC coilovers. Drove another MS3 with them and it is so much better. I could still feel a trace of the gremlin trying to come out, but it is mostly restrained.
The BCs only have one adjustment knob that adjusts both rebound and compression simultaneously. They do come with hard spherical upper mounts, however, which is good in a hardcore kind of way. They are a universal shock cartridge arrangement, which is less than ideal, but from what I could tell, seems to work well enough.

Sunnyv8le
I noticed that the rear shocks start to get extremely tight and harder to adjust after passing 1 7/8" distance from the end of the threads; therefore, this is the maximum distance that these shocks can be at for a safe, non-bouncy ride. When you go past this distance, I believe it puts too much pressure on the shocks and creates little room for shock travel.
I FINISHED the car and it works perfectly well now. NO BOUNCINESS!!!!!!!!!!
So here are the major things I discovered after working on the suspension myself for the BC coilovers on the MS3.
1. The front suspension seems to be fine at any adjusted distance (possbily even to the lowest setting).
2. The rear shocks must be at 1 7/8" distance from the lowest end of the threads to bottom of the lower locking nut for safe shock travel/dampening and to prevent bounciness.
3. The rear springs can be adjusted all the way, and if the ride is not low enough, you can safely remove the rear spring perches.

Wastegate13:
I only 900 miles on the stock suspension but there isn't a big difference between these and stock that I see. They are stiffer but the ride is not objectionable at all. I also found that the rear mount is nowhere near as bothersome as most people make it out to be.

defylogik:
Everyone scoffed at me when i told people in quite a few posts to stay away from these coilovers. They have no suspension travel due to their one size fits all strut style
now that you have them installed, take a tape measure and measure the center of your front wheel to the fender lip. next put the same corner up on a jack stand, then place your jack under your tire or susp. arm and start jacking untill it you cant anymore or the car starts to lift. Re-measure the distance. i bet you will be pretty dissapointed with the suspension travel on your new 1100 shocks.
car looks good the way it is sitting though, but i am very against this coilover manufacter, and if you do the above you will find out why.

on the three cars i have seen these coilovers installed on, one being my mini, they have notoriously small suspension travel when sitting at ride height. my mini had less than .5" of suspension travel with these struts, and on other cars i have seen on average 1" travel stroke. hence why these type of coilovers are usually matched up with insane spring rates. basically you are riding the bump stops a lot. your perceived faster "flat" cornering do to this bump stop riding.

these are the same coilovers as many different resellers. i.e. megan racing, bc, ksport, etc. they are all the same one size fits all dampner with different hardware tubes that screw in to the bottoms. oh they all have different branding stickers too

just one mans opinion, but from experience i wouldnt touch these again with a 30 foot pole.


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Bilstein B14 PSS coilovers available Europe only?

Specs:
Part No. F4-VE3-C120-H0
The B14 is not adjustable for compression/rebound, if you need that Bilsteins B16 PSS offers full adjustability for damping but costs quite a bit more.


User comments:

kawiralph:
The drop should be in the range of 1.2 - 1.6 inches
WOW, it seems to be even better than I dared to hope. The ride is more comfortable but very much more controlled than the OEM setup Once more it seems to pay off investing in sophisticated components. It's so much better balanced than the OEM setup that I hardly can believe it. I also noticed that the clunking noises so often heard with the OEM shocks are gone. At the moment the ride height is still a bit on the high side but I will drop it a bit more there is still about 1 cm left. As I already posted the Bilsteins are the wrong setup if you are looking for maximum drop.

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CUSCO Comp-S (made for regular MZ3 but fit)

Cusco Compact-S Coilover
Rates: 392F/224R (lb/in)
Height: -5mm to -40mm (?)
Price (MSRP): $1,186 (Converted from JPY)
Adjustable: Height

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HKS Hipermax III Sport Suspension

Just announced in Japan:

http://www.jdmtuningnews.com/articles/71608a.htm

HKS has announced its front / rear full coilover HKS Hipermax III Sport Suspension For the Mazdaspeed Axela (Mazdaspeed 3) (BK3P / L3-VDT). The product number is 80155-AZ004 and it retails for 249,900 yen ($2500?) including tax. The kit is a highend streetsports option total length adjustable type with 30 dampening settings, designed for use with a high grip radial tire. The upper mound on both front and rear is a pillowball type and the front springs are monoblock design.


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H&R COILOVER

Engineered for street and occasional track use, H&R Coil-Overs feature a fully-threaded shock body (not an imitation sleeve-over) that allows you to precisely dial in height adjustment to achieve optimum weight transfer, or simply get the aggressive look you've been looking for. Featuring H&R's exclusive dynamic damper technology, each shock is engineered to work in harmony with a progressive-rate spring, together creating a finely-tuned suspension system.

Rates: Not Published
Height: -30.4mm to -63.5mm (Front) and -19.1mm to -50.8mm (Rear)
Front Lowering: 1.2" - 2.5"
Rear Lowering: .75" - 2.0"
Price (MSRP): $1,380
Adjustable: Height


Comments found:
H&R coilover kit does not have damper adjustment but it is cheaper than the Mazdaspeed coilovers.

Radar_This:
They even ride better than stock set up...and comfort hasn't changed...Even the wife agrees...She's even saying its better than stock, as a passenger (she said pregnant women, DON'T WORRY)...I took it on a lil drive afterwards...WOW...I dropped it 1.2 inm the front and 1" in the back...And torque steer is a lot less now as well...So nice!...For anyone that is looking for a set up for their Speed I highly recommend these...AMAZING STUFF!...I'm speechless...

i had h&r and eibach springs in...both sucked...with the stock struts...
went with h&r coils...wow what an amazing improvement...and not jarring feeling, comfy ride...shocked on that...so comfy our 9 year old fell a sleep in the back seat on a short drive to the mall...
and my wifes words are the seller...
"you should of done coils from the start"

Stretch:
H&R is a good example because they use quality Bilstein parts, but in the sample I tried, they were overdamped and thus unnecessarily rough and slow. Perhaps H&R does this intentionally because being overdamped feels fast even though it is slow;

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JIC MAGIC A2's & A1's

Rates:
Height:
Price:
Adjustable:

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K Sports coilovers

Specs: to come

Comments:
Hexedit:
Avoid ksports like the plague. The shocks lasted about 10k miles and the entire system rusted to shit after 2 years.

numbnuts22715:
Fuck Ksports.
I had them on my Integra, and all 4 shocks blew in a few months.
I tried to return it, but at the time the whole website was pretty much in japanese or some other asian language.
I also met a guy the other day who had them on his mazdaspeed protege, and they all blew too.
NOT a good decision.

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KW COILOVERS

http://www.kw-suspension.com/en/30_Products/20_KW_Coilovers/index.php

Specs:
Lowering 0.8-2.0 inches
Spring rates:
Front: 400
Rear: Progressive


Comments:

Stretch:
So, while I don't have a specific recommendation at the moment, I will say to be careful with your choices! While I haven't evaluated them all, my guess is premium coilovers like KW are currently the only great solution.
 
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#2 ·
Re: Mazdaspeed3 Suspension Guide (What is available, specs, driving impressions)

COILOVERS L-Z


MAZDASPEED MS3 COILOVERS
MAZDASPEED Coil Over Suspension Kit. Independent rebound and
compression damper adjustments. Ride height adjustment from 7 to
25mm lower than stock. The spring rates are approximately double
those of the stock springs. High performance race-tuned suspension
increases steering precision and handling. It is recommended that
Rear Camber Links, GRMS-8M-L07 be installed with this kit.
Coil Over Suspension Kit RAMS-8M-L10

Warranty: Orange

Orange Warranty
MAZDASPEED "Orange" Performance Accessories are sold "as is" without any warranty of any kind. All implied warranties, including all warranties of merchantability of fitness for a particular purpose, are excluded. Purchaser acknowledges that no representations have been made regarding these parts, including but not limited to any representations as to their quality of performance, and purchaser shall be responsible for and bear all costs of repair of replacement due to any defect in or failure of these parts or any damage to other components. Purchaser acknowledges that vehicles equipped with MAZDASPEED "Orange" Performance Accessories shall not be operated on public highways. MAZDASPEED "Orange" Performance Accessories are intended solely for the use on vehicles participating in race/off-road competition events. Purchaser acknowledges that all Mazda vehicle/parts/accessory warranties are voided if the vehicle is used in a competitive event. Purchaser also acknowledges that there will be no warranty coverage for any part or accessory that fails as a result of the installation of a MAZDASPEED "Orange" performance part. Purchaser accepts all responsibility for all vehicle modifications and all potential risks. MAZDASPEED "Orange" Performance Accessories have been designed and are intended for race/offroad applications only. Federal and many state laws prohibit the removal, modification of, or rendering inoperative any part or vehicle system affecting emissions or safety.


Specs:
Mazdaspeed Coilover [KW - Variant 3?]:
Rates: 400F/291R (lb/in) 70/51 N/mm (rears progressive)
Height: -7mm to -25mm
Price (MSRP): $1,775
Adjustable: Height, Compression, Rebound


Mazdaspeed Mazda3 (NONSPEED) coilovers: 230f/180r 40/32 N/mm

Comments:
Mazdaspeed's are made by KW, and have independent Compression/Rebound adjustment, the fronts are linear with a helper spring for preload and the rears are progressive.

rotus8:
I can tell you my combination is awesome. MS coilovers, Hotchkis ARBs. The only car I have driven (and I do have some breadth of experience) that I would say is better is a Porsche Boxter S, but not by much. This thing rails the corners, eats speed bumps, controls braking dive, and yet doesn't shake your teeth out as a commuter. Don't get me wrong, the ride isn't for everyone; you know for sure if the pavement isn't perfect, but it stays stuck, no launching or weird jiggles. I really wish I could put shocks on the seat; the car reacts to a bump with a controlled up-down-done, then the seat does a couple of oscillations. Of course it would help if my body was a little less jiggly too.
BTW, I have my rear ARB in the Stiff (as opposed to "really stiff") position, and the shock settings are to the installation manual suggested settings, minus one click of compression damping all around

it is pretty easy to adjust the rear rebound without taking the shock off the car. At the sides of the hatch area there are black plastic pieces just over the top of wheel well. Each has a simple button fastener just behind where the seat folds forward and a screw under a cap at the rear. Remove these and you can remove the piece by pulling out a few tabs.

spent $3 on some extra ball point allen wrenches, 2mm for the rear rebound (top) and 4mm for the front compression (bottom). I plan to cut them in the appropriate places and add an extension handle to the 2mm one to make specific tools for shock adjustments.

oatmealboy:
I also have the same setup (MS Coilovers, Hotchkis bars), it's nothing short of awesome! The difference between his setup and mine is that he's got aftermarket endlinks, and I have the rear bar set at the "really stiff" setting. Oh, and I left the camber links stock as well.
I was annoyed at the floatiness of this car's stock suspension. I drive through pretty rough roads on the way to work, and I feel like the car will eventually hop over these bumps. And if it's not the absolute smoothest autocross surface, this car--as well as its driver--will get flustered. Not anymore with the new suspension. The car is firmly planted to the ground, and it handles like a dream.

*Angel-Of-Darknes*:
I set my coilovers to a stiff setting in the rebound phase and softer in the compression phase and the high speed float feeling is gone. THe car is smooth as hell at 100+ speeds, even my riders have said so.

Chaos4:
Mazdaspeed Coil overs= float fixed. $1775 retail, $1200 racer price through Mazdaspeed Sports Developments. Have seen them by forum sponsors around $1500

You want to get serious about a suspension for street and tracking? Get the MS coilover set up! I used to not look forward to the real twistie road courses, but, no more! On a 20 turn 3.05 mile course in Calabogie, Canada this past week, I dropped the class track record, (mine from last year) by 9+ seconds with the only change the coilovers.! I out timed a 350Z Track which holds every track record in it's class with a driver who has been the year end driver champion for our club.
I am sure shocks will be a big benefit, but if you want flat cornering , the coilovers are the way to go.

I have the Mazdaspeed MS3 coilovers and think they are great. Street ride (not that it was my goal) remains liveable. They are fully adjustable, but I am still using the factory starting settings until I can catch up to the suspension on the track!

Mazdaspeed MS3 Coilovers took everything I could throw at them running at Watkins Glen this week. I set them for a minimal drop (about 3/4") and used the factory suggested "starting" settings for both front and rear rebound. Awesome, awesome, awesome!

budgy:
my MS coilovers are on the recommended settings, the car feels more planted than my old 3 did with koni yellows and a prokit and yet me and another member both found it takes the bumps a lot better than the konis ever did, but thats due to having low and high piston speeds being accounted for seperately.
And again from a guy who has ran Koni yellows on a 3 and coilovers on the MS3 I find the coilovers are less harsh, as did another member that also has the yellows installed on his hatch.

Rotus8:
rear top mounts need to be drilled out to house the new rears

defylogik:
I would be very leary about having to drill out a part that might cost me 500 bucks to replace if i need to order the whole rear suspension to replace it.

Note: rear shocks are $90 each from onlinemazdaparts.com

mushdawg:
i have them set on soft for now driving 80 miles a day for work and stuff. the ride is stiffer than stock, but most definately manageable. i had the rear set all the way stiff for the longest time, and that just wasnt necessary for daily commuting. but all in all, i am very satisfied so far. now to get her to the track
i took out the smaller rear spring perches so the rear is as low as it can go without taking out the larger, upper spring perches. one finger gap in the front, and zero gap in the back. but absolutely no rubbing, even over speedbumps, potholes, full turns - you name it. even on the softest setting. very pleased.
the stiffest setting is bone-jarring for everyday use, but will be great for the track.

ms3truered:
I just went from the Eibach Pro springs to the MazdaSpeed Coilovers. Wow, what a difference. They are well worth the price. I haven't had a chance to push it really hard but I have hit some curvy roads this week and its a big difference from stock or with the Eibachs. They really seem to have eliminated a lot of body roll. The front end really stays level under heavy braking and the shocks really soak up the hits while ripping through corners.


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TEIN Basic Coilovers

http://www.tein.com/price/mazda.html

Spring rates 336f 392r

Specs: Now in development

User Comments: None available

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TEIN SS Coilovers

http://www.tein.com/price/mazda.html

Specs for MS3: 336f 392r

Specs: Now in development.

User comments:
jflo:
When tein gave me the car back it was dropped about 1.3" front 1.2 back. Right now it's like 2" or more.
The ride is firmer. Its on 9 and 9 up front and 6 and 6 in the back. Not intolerable for daily driving, which is what i do. My gf says its not too stiff...but she cant fall asleep in it now haha.

tigermack:
Depends on where I go, where I live, it feels like it's really soft but as soon as I head out of town in Cali... the roads are quite horrid. The reason why I keep it 1/1 is because of that and trying to keep them last as long as it can.
I was on 80 the other day, the roads are so messed up there. It was not fun.
You can tell the shocks stiffen up by just turning it by 1.
 
#3 ·
Re: Mazdaspeed3 Suspension Guide (What is available, specs, driving impressions)

SHOCKS/STRUTS/DAMPERS

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BILSTEIN

Uses Volvo S40 struts

http://www.bilstein.com/mistore/ymm_productf.php?company_id=100484&year=2008&model_id2=5484&makes=MAZDA&storedimg.x=1&storedimg.y=1&storedimg=1&storeYMM=storeYMM

3 and speed3 http://www.awrracing.com/store/index.php?cPath=60_74

Comments

farnorthracing.com:
Bilstein makes amazing shocks - they are mechanically simple, parts are dirt cheap and readily availible, and the innards of their street shocks and their full-race shocks are identical. Crack open a Bilstien street shock, and inside are the same parts as inside their NASCAR shocks. That means that there is a simple conversion process (involving welding a boss onto the shock body to fit a Shraeder valve into the gas chamber) to turn an off-the-shelf street Bilstein into a full-race, user-servicable, user-revalveable NASCAR Bilstein.

FreeFlyFreak: I am currently running Bilstein Sports on my car with OEM springs, it is the best setup I have tried yet.
Having run OEM, 4040 Koni FSD, MS Coils, 4045 Koni FSD and now Bilstein Sports. I would recommend Bilsteins as the best all round solution. The MSCoils have great damping, but their short travel means I would only recommend them for smooth roads or track use. FSD's offer the smoothest ride but I found them lacking on damping under certain road conditions, if you want the smoothest of rides though, Koni FSD is where it is at.
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KONI Sport (Yellow)
http://www.koni-na.com/cat_search.cfm?mt_id=1&my_year=2007&mak_id=25&mod_id=390&submit.x=13&submit.y=7
Advertising:
Sport Shocks
Why the industries first adjustable shock is still the best:
Big handling improvements
Reasonable ride quality
External rebound adjustment on most cars
Best KONI shock for all lowering springs
Re-buildable and re-valveable for custom vehicle setups
Yellow exterior finish
Lifetime Warranty
Personalize your car's ride/handling with these precision damper units.



Comments found:
I just got off the phone with Jim at Koni. He said testing of Koni Sport shocks for Mazda3 has been completed on Mazdaspeed3 and the shocks are now officially approved for Mazdaspeed3. He said they will update their database and application guide accordingly within several weeks. He also mentioned that one of the engineers who did the testing said the handling has improved significantly over stock shocks.

MazdaSteve3:
I installed the Konis yesterday. For those who have missed all the discussion, I (we) am trying to figure out if the floatiness of the MS3 can be remedied with only a change to the damping, using Koni adjustable shocks. The Konis are only listed for the regular 3, but they fit the Speed3 fine.
The install was the easiest I've ever done. The fronts were very easy, and you don't have to pull any of the interior to do the rears. Very simple. On the front, use the coin trick to open up the strut clamp and pry apart with the aid of a block of wood between the top of the knuckle and the bottom of the spring mount. On the rear, be sure you really tighten the lower shock bolt. You have to collapse the bracket a bit before you actually start to clamp on the shock itself. Hit the bottom of the shock with a dead blow hammer to check that it is tight.
The fronts have an adjustment knob that you can adjust by just opening the hood. Adjusting the rears is a pain, though. They have to be removed from the car and the mount/ bump stop removed, then fully compressed for adjustment. When you are skinny like me, it is work to keep them compressed and turn them at the same time. To get both of them adjusted the same, you can turn them the same amount, which should be close, but what I did was also to compress them both side by side, then let them go and see how fast they return, then adjust one until they return at the same rate. Assuming everything else is equal between the two, this ought to work well.
Oh, you want to know how the ride is? Well, I adjusted all of the shocks to 540 degrees (out of 720+ for max stiffness). WAAAYYYYY too stiff. Like inflating the tires to 100 psi. Really hard on the abdomen. It isn't the impact of bumps that is so hard, but on the dips and ripples, you feel like you are getting dropped down hard after each one. I figure that this is due to too much rebound damping, resulting in a lack of compliance to the road. I took a full turn out of the fronts, and it seemed to calm down some, but I'll have to pull the rears off to adjust. And I'm not saying it is too stiff because I don't like firm suspensions. It is too stiff in a way that is bad for ride quality, bad for handling, bad all the way around.
Floatiness is kind of irrelevant at this point. I'll have to get the ride to a reasonable point, then see what I've got. Certainly no float now. There is already a fantastic improvement on higher speed corners, and it ought to get better. Feels like there is no body roll compared to stock, although shocks don't really affect the overall amount of roll. I'll lose some of that as I adjust them to a softer setting, but overall road compliance should increase, which is good.

I have all corners on the softest settings now, and still have issues. The floatiness is not as bad as stock, but there is still some there.

What a major PITA to adjust the rears. It is ridiculous. It would have been so much easier if they were adjustable at maximum extension instead of maximum compression. Then you could just undo the bottom shock bolt, let the shock extend, adjust, and bolt it back up.
Why are they not externally adjustable in the first place? Is the top of the rod not accessible from inside the car? Would be much better to pull the interior panels, make adjustments, and when it is all sorted out, replace the panels.
It takes one minute to adjust the fronts, and one hour for the rears.

fjames:
Set the rear at 2 (half turns - 360º) to start, figuring that would give me 1-2-3 on the front to play with. Started with 2/2 and it was nice - like it should have been from the factory. No more pitch weirdness or looking at the sky. Tried 3 front and it was too much - sort of a vague sensation of being out of balance, and on large bumps I got the feeling it was pounding down (not recovering fast enough because of the soft spring.)
After a few hundred miles, including a 30 mile shock torture test, they felt like they'd lost their newness, so tried 3 again in the front, and that's where it is now - 3F/2R. The RSB should balance it out nicely I'm hoping.
They're not remotely like anything you'd call harsh. It's just a properly snubbed, controlled feel to the body motions. It still goes too far down in jounce, so that contributes to the overall feel in that the controlled rebound has more motion to control than it should if the car had proper springs to begin with.
Can't say anything about the handling except maybe the steering is a little more responsive off center.

farnorthracing.com:
That being said, the ubiquitous Koni Yellow is actually a decent shock for the price. The off-the-shelf valving is usually pretty good, the knob is rebound-only with very little crosstalk onto compression, and while the knob is SERIOUSLY nonlinear, it can be worked with: a typical Yellow had 2 1/2 turns of adjustment. The last 1/2 turn to full hard is useless (tiny changes make huge force changes) and the last half to full turn does nothing, but that turn to turn and a half in the middle of the range usually isn't bad.

Koni's quality control on the Yellows is such that the odds on any two shocks with the same part number matching forces are very small - there's quite a bit of shock-to-shock variation. But bought as a group buy and then dyno matched, it is possible to put together matched sets. Be aware that I've seen Koni Yellows with the same part number that matched perfectly when one was 1/2 turn off full hard, and the other was at full soft - I consider the adjuster knob a way to match shocks on the dyno, NOT a tuning tool.
Koni will also rebuild and revalve for you, although the labour and parts pricing is a little high. Koni is "save now, pay later" where Bilstein is "pay now, save later".
Konis that are custom-valved to make a lot of force also have a tendancy to explode... but that's a "Doctor, it hurts when I do this" problem, not Koni's fault.
Where there's no Bilstein fitment and Penskes are too expensive, Konis are usually perfectly adaquate. They are, by far, the best budget shock and better than any of the crap coming out of Japan. JIC, GAB, Tokiko, Tein - synonyms for "crap".


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KONI FSD Shocks 2100

Complete Kit
2100 4545
Retail Price: $946.00
KONI online Price: $709.50 per kit

Koni site says: "FSD kit must be used with stock height suspension", but they sell kits for many cars with Eibach lowering springs.
I emailed Koni to ask about the discrepancy, the reply was: "When we originally came out with the FSD shocks they were designed for OE height vehicles. So we designated them to be used with stock height suspension. We have since tested the Eibach Pro Kit on select vehicles and found that the FSD will work correctly with it. We have found that the FSD will not work correctly if it is riding on the bump stop or does not have enough travel to engage the special valve that makes FSD what it is."





Advertizing blurb:

KONI’s latest technology accomplishes the task that has eluded most shock makers until now - great handling + excellent ride quality:

Taut body motion control
Excellent ride quality on all road surfaces
Patented, parallel-valve design
Available for most newer cars – more coming
Gold metallic finish shocks
Less expensive than electronic systems
Drive the car you love every day.

The first shock absorber offering superior road-holding without compromising comfort.

KONI introduces FSD, the first no-compromise shock absorber in the world. A revolutionary new technique which combines the benefits of firm and comfortable suspension in a single perfect shock absorber. Firm for sporty driving on even road surfaces. Comfortable for a smooth ride on uneven road surfaces.

Realizing the seemingly impossible!

Two characteristics that seemed diametrically- opposed, proved to be a source of inspiration for specialists from KONI. Following lengthy development and testing, the ultimate solution was reached: KONI FSD - Frequency Selective Damping.

A revolutionary new technique whereby the benefits of both types of ride characteristics are combined in one perfect shock absorber. Banishing the disadvantages of the past. FSD shock absorbers; a smart suspension system adjusting automatically to road conditions as well as driving style. And all of this in a fraction of a second. FSD guarantees greater stability, greater control and thus greater driving pleasure.

KONI reconfirms with the FSD innovation a leading position as innovative supplier of high-quality shock absorber products.

Advantages of FSD

› Ends the compromise between comfort and handling
› Can be integrated in conventional damper layouts
› No need for sensors, cables, or other electronic devices
› Creates an additional variable in fine-tuning the car’s behaviour
› Quick and easy to develop for existing suspensions
› Damper cost efficient

Left column: comfort
Right column: controllability



new shock absorber that Koni has developed, that they called "Frequency-Selective Damping", or FSD. The idea is that they can respond differently to high-frequency inputs vs. low-frequency ones: there is a valve inside that sits in parallel with the rest of the oil passages, but only opens when the shock is hit fast enough with sufficient force. This means that, for high-frequency inputs (those produced by the wheel when it hits a pothole or other significant bump), it can respond softly and soak up the impact, but for low-frequency ones (produced by the movement of the car body as you brake, corner, change lanes, etc.), it can respond stiffly. So, the idea is that, theoretically at least, these shocks can improve handling and ride quality simultaneously.

User comments:

FreeFlyFreak:

Initial driving impressions, I will write more after I drive on them more, just did about 1hr 30mins:

The car is a lot smoother over the speed bumps in my neighborhood.
The fronts no longer hit the bumpstops going over the speedbumps I used to feel them bottom out. (when I took the OEM fronts apart it was obvious there had been quite a bit of contact with the bumpers)
There is a large reduction in road noise, from surface noise, to cracks, expansion joints, and reflectors.
The ride is definitely smoother all around, in town and on highway.

The bouncing is mostly cured, but not 100% unfortunately.
There are still some situations where I still get some rock and roll, but it is tamed, less bounce, and over in one cycle instead of repeated 2 or 3 times..

I would say 75% of the bouncing is gone completely, the other 25% that remains is tamed in that has less amplitude, Im guessing 40% reduced (60% remains), and the big thing is it is over in one cycle, instead or being repeated 2 or 3 times.

I certainly felt more relaxed pushing it in corners. The edgy feeling was gone.

Summary, it is not as good as I had hoped, but it is way better than stock.

Maybe Stretch and CP-e can cure the remaining 25%, I hope so, but I will be waiting to hear positive user impressions before ripping those front struts out again.

FreeFlyFreak:


Went for a longer test drive today, just driving! fast and slow (mostly fast) and getting a feel for the Konis.

The route I took was this:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=95010&daddr=CA-35%2FSkyline+Blvd+to:CA-84%2FLa+Honda+Rd+to:36.988294,-121.959229&hl=en&geocode=%3BFTqrOwId8iO1-A%3BFcJwOQIdEkq1-A%3B&mra=dme&mrcr=1&mrsp=3&sz=10&via=2&sll=37.251101,-122.310791&sspn=0.634012,1.235962&ie=UTF8&z=10

My impression after my longer drive today is this:
I would consider this setup perfect (for what my goals were), except for one thing, there are still some road surfaces that bother the car.
Hard to describe in words a road surface, but I will try: it is an undulating surface, where some parts of the road have sunk a little, not much, but enough. You often get areas that are like this around here that may last a mile or so. It creates what I call jostle, not a dangerous or unsettling movement, but the kind of thing that could make someone car sick. Where too much movement is transmitted to the cabin.
It is often mostly side to side, and I am not sure it can be removed, maybe the sway bars are to blame, and I would rather not change those and lose cornering ability.
The stock car had the same problem, but in a different way, the stock jostle was more harsh, and abrupt, the Koni Jostle feels like the same amplitude but smoother, it still would make you car sick, it just wouldn't beat you up while doing it (it would only shake you up).

I still get the odd bounce over a deep depression, but it is much more refined, one movement instead of three, the scary part is removed. It used to feel like the car sproinged up and amplified the bump, now it feels dampened, not amplified.
I am not a road racer.... well sometimes..... but today I hit speeds I have never dared hit before, because the unpredictability, the scary part was gone.
That was the main thing for me, the cars behaviour scared me at times, that is gone and I am glad.

Having said that I wish the jostle was gone, I must point out the good side:

They are reasonably priced @ 650 from Protege Garage, or less if you use Live Search and Ebay for the cash rebate.
They make the ride around town more comfortable.
They get rid of a lot of road noise, I always blamed the tires, but I think half the noise was the shocks transmitting noise/vibes to the cabin/body.
They tamed the dangerous bounces, into just a mild bounce.
They got rid of most of the other bounce.
They made the car feel MUCH better at high speed. 80-140. I would say the car feels like it is going 40 mph slower than it used to.

I actually notice a HUGE difference backing out of my driveway, it slopes down to the road, drops off about a half inch to the concrete gutter and then jumps up a half inch to the road surface which slopes up toward the center. It used to be, anything faster than a slow crawl would give a thump, an abrupt jolt(s) followed by a lot of oscillation, now I back out however I want, nothing more than a dull thud sound, no jolt, no jive.

All I am left in this car with is the remaining tamed bounce and the jostle, (which feels the same amount, but smoother), fortunately those only happen on certain road surfaces.

kwsmithphoto:
His review is here: http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=135975.0



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

STOCK/OEM Struts

Comments:

Stretch:
A 1" drop on the stock struts means you'll be hitting the jounce bumpers very, very frequently.

crossbow:
With a 1 inch drop, there is only a quarter of an inch of suspension travel remaining, meaning the car will be riding on the jounce bumpers for a majority of the time, greatly reducing both the effectiveness of the stock struts, and causing premature wear and possible failure.

Lower the car an inch, and you're on the bumpers. We need a set of springs that lowers the car no more then 0.75 inches.

(Thus why I'd only recommend coilovers)
 
#4 ·
Re: Mazdaspeed3 Suspension Guide (What is available, specs, driving impressions)

SPRINGS

General Spring info:
There is a spring rate converter here: http://www.hraefn.net/projects/spring_rates.php

------------------------------------------------------------------------

AUTOEXE LOWDOWN SPRINGS

Advertising:
The roll is placed under control by the spring rate intensified within the range that has less impact on a ride quality, so that the vehicle height can be brought down by approx. 30 mm. For the riding taste, the car stability is improved by bringing its center of gravity down, which provides a desired tendency to the “person who enjoys driving.” Moreover, the clearance of tire house becomes reduced, which makes the whole car look low. As a result, a dynamic feeling is provided to the styling

Price $365

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

COBB TUNING Sport Springs

Direct replacement for the factory springs, and designed to work with the factory struts, the COBB Sports Springs reduce the ride height by 1.0" Front and 1.0" Rear. The result is an aggressive stance that will reward you with little "squat" while under hard acceleration, eliminating any front wheel hop you might experience with the OEM suspension. The springs are powdercoated COBB Blue in a unique process for protection against the elements.
Precision CNC cold wound high quality Chrome Silicon steel construction. Spring rates are approximately +15% for the front and +25% for the rear over stock which, results in a sporty feel without being unnecessarily harsh or bouncy. Our final spring rates are the result of extensive real-world and road course testing.

Spring rates:
Front 216
Rear 214

Lowering:
1" front
1" rear

User comments:

Truredspeed3:
The Cobb springs do reduce the float, but they don't completely eliminate it.
I did the cobb springs and a 225/40/18 series tire on my 18x7.5 inch rim and the float is even less now on high speed highway runs even with uneven pavement and such. Love it!

WagonMan:
Since installing the cobb springs I have noticed a substantial decrease in front end float.

I think the Cobb springs are a better match to the stock shocks then the stock springs. Much better control over bigger bumps and the car feels far better planted.


daniyar79:
The drop is very noticable compared to stock. Even with sway bars I rubbed with stock tires once during AutoX and a few times going into dips at high speed. If you want a lower drop it needs to be a very stiff spring like on coilovers, otherwise you will rub if you drive aggressively. I now run 225/40 and no rub. But I love these springs, good balance of stiffness and comfort.

Changed my MS springs to Cobb (with sways) and feels a million times better, float is almost gone, and more importantly the car is neutral now, no more understeer.

Ploppity Drown
I'm noticing about a half inch drop in front and no measurable drop in the rear.

I'm riding on COBB sport springs with stock shocks right now, and yes, the ride has suffered. The shocks are not strong enough to properly dampen (esp. in rebound) the stiffer (+15% F / +25% R vs. stock IIRC) springs -- hell, they're not strong enough for the stock springs -- which results in a very unsettled ride over uneven pavement. And around here, that means most of the time the ride is unsettling. There's a lot of bouncing back and forth, left and right. So on the street, it's really hard to call it an improvement, because mid corner bumps can bounce the tires off the ground, breaking traction prematurely. Or at least that's how it feels. On a smoothly paved track you might not notice it.
In reality, I think the weakest link in the factory suspension is the shock absorbers -- not the springs. And their primary weakness is their durability -- their dampening ability takes a nose dive following a few thousand miles of exercise.

PirateKitty:
they do lower the car 1" in the front, but the rear doesn't budge

08speed3:
On smooth roads the Cobb springs are great, but the struts are too soft for these springs so I'm swapping to the MS coils
On I-95 there are many patches where the road 'dips' down and the car feels too bouncy there. So hopefully with the stiffer struts the ride will settle after bumps really well.

Truggs:
The ride is a tad stiffer then stock however the car feels alot more planted. They seem to match the stock shocks very well. Overall I would say it was a big improvement over the stock springs.

speedfreak89:
The cobb springs, however, I strongly recomend, I have installed 2 sets (will be 3 today) and everyone loves them, upon "checking for noises" ( ) I love the way they work with the stock struts, its amazing.

Snyeed:
The ride quality is excellent, I wanna say it almost rides stock but the stiffness is there. On the freeway it feels hunkered down, The floaty feeling isn't there so much just a nice ride.

Mumz:
i just took my cobb springs off ii couldent take it any more they were junk. infact i found sombody selling there oem spring on ebay and slapped them back on. i will never use another cobb product. the springs were to soft any time i turned the wheel left or right i could hear the springs compress and grind even going over any bumbs it was likes hell. i pulled them out 5-6 times check to see how there were seated in there and it was correct ever time, but even with the full waight of the car on them i could grab the springs and make them twist it was horrable.




-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



EIBACH SPRINGS Pro-Kit

MS3 Pro-Kit, PN# 5549.140 (prototype July 08)
front rates 160lbs-239lbs
rear rates 148lbs-228lbs
the lowering amount will be .8" in the front and .7" in the back. this is to minimize camber tire wear while offering the best performance possible with stock dampers.
Camber after springs with stock struts:
Front: -1.4 degrees
Rear: -2.1 degrees

User coments:

Turbo23:
So to the driving, I think the car should have come this way, meaning the car stock should have come with this spring rates. Its not harsh, but there is a noticeable difference over stock. Handling was improved, the car doesnt have the floaty nature it had before. I will comment on its handling futher this week, as I haven't had the time to really test the car yet.
The drop is as Eibach advertises. .8 drop in the front .7 drop rear. I would say give or take .2 for each of those measurements. My driver side side a tad bit lower then my passenger side.
Overall I am happy with the purchase, I didnt want a super low set of springs, and I wanted something that was stiffer, and gave me the feel I wanted. I feel these springs had met my expectations. Im excited to see the results at the next autox. I would recommend these to anyone looking for a more aggressive setup using stock shocks.

----------------------------------------------------

H&R Sport Springs: MAZDASPEED 3 (07+)
List Price: $329.00

Advertising:
The most popular spring in H&R's line-up, Sport Springs will lower your vehicle an average of 1.5 - 2 inches (depending upon the make and model of your vehicle) for a lower center of gravity, improved handling and a more aggressive appearance. Sport springs feature more control than that of the OE Sport spring, but is still comfortable for daily use. Sport springs are an excellent choice for street and occasional track use.

Specs:
Spring rates:
Drop: 1.3"F, 1.2"R

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MAZDASPEED SPORT SPRINGS Made by Eibach?

0.59" drop

30% increase in spring rate front and rear over stock

front rates 244
rear rates 222


See the Mix and Match section before you write these off they seem to work well with koni struts/shocks/dampers.

daniyar79:
Used Mazdaspeed springs for a couple of months and hated them, too bouncy.

tbone13:
but the main thing that sucks ass is that the float is still there.
i hate the float.

daniyar79:
I put about 1500 miles on the MS spring kit and at first I kind of liked it, but after my trip to Grand Canyon I was very disappointed. I17 from Phoenix to Flagstaff has some very nice high speed mountain sections so it was a good stress test for MS springs. I was following a Porsche Cayenne at 100+ mph when I discovered a major flaw in the suspension, but not necessarily in the springs themselves. At these speeds the shocks completely failed to absorb the spring bounce which made the whole car very bouncy and unstable. It was so unstable that I had to slow down because keeping up with the Porsche was just dangerous. I don't want to blame the springs as I am sure they are fine with certain shocks, but I am blaming Mazda for selling a spring kit that does not match the characteristics of the stock shocks at all. The rebound is not even close to where it is suppose to be for these springs. This just shows that Mazda and/or Eibach did not do any homework on their part.
(replaced with Cobb matched set springs and sways read review in matched set section)

I installed MS spring kit with stock shocks and car bounces all over the place. It's like if I go over a bump it takes 2 or even 3 strokes for the stock shock to dampen the oscillation. It's fine in the city, but when I took my car up to 100 in the canyons it didn't feel all that great. Kinda scary actually.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------

ROADMAGNET SPRINGS

road magnet springs (1.1" all around).

buttdart:
seems slightly bouncy over some bumps, but not bad!

AzMs3:
definately an improvement over stock, the floaty feeling is not as bad anymore.
I still think I should add the Koni's to make them better.
I would say the drop is between 1.5" - 2.0"



----------------------------------------------------------------------------

STOCK/OEM SPRINGS

front rates 188
rear rates 171

Stretch: "stock spring frequencies are roughly 1.5hz front, 1.3hz rear (rounding slightly). Ideally the rear would be more like 1.6 or 1.65hz to match the front"


User Comments:
Jouncy, Floaty

WagonMan:
On the stock suspension I noticed some front suspension float, but I don't think that was due to aero. It was mainly over bumps and based on the testing Cobb did, it appears to be due to soft springs in the rear.

Stretch:
However, even a cursory look at the stock spring rates shows that the spring frequencies are quite out of whack on a stock Speed3, and I see this as something that should be corrected. A stock Mazdaspeed3 is much softer in the rear than front, but we want the rear to be slightly firmer than the front for what's called a "flat" ride quality. I'm not aware of any spring set that does this as it requires a far stiffer rear spring than front (due to the vehicle's motion ratios).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TEIN SPRINGS

In development
http://www.tein.com/price/mazda.html

Specs:
Rates
Front 163
Rear 241

VOGTLAND springs

http://vogtlandsuspension.com/Mazda/c17/index.html?page=5

Advertising:
Vogtland Sport Lowering Springs:
VOGTLAND Lowering Sport Springs made in Germany gives your car improved dynamic handling, better cornering and a dynamic appearance.

This means better appearance with maximum driving comfort in normal operation and sporty, progressive tuning on the track.

The Vogtland Suspension Springs features the company's extensive line up of performance springs, shocks and suspension kits for hundreds of applications. Sport Springs and Sport Suspension Kits are available with lowering from 30 to 60 mm.

Vogtland springs are TUV tested OEM quality and carry a limited lifetime warranty. Springs are produced using special oil tempered spring steels of high tensile strength chrome-silicon and chrome-silicon-vanadium alloys using the cold coiling process. This achieves low spring weight with high material strength and the desired effect of uniformly reducing the un-spring weight of the vehicle - thereby optimizing the handling characteristics.


Specs:
Lowering Springs | 958028A | Drop 1.2 [in] 30 [mm]

Spring Rate: Not Published
 
#5 ·
Re: Mazdaspeed3 Suspension Guide (What is available, specs, driving impressions)

SWAYBARS

COBB TUNING

A direct replacement for the factory sway bars, the lightweight performance Swaybars improve handling, reduce body roll, and do not negatively impact ride quality or NHV. To improve handling and increase grip from the front of the vehicle, a larger, 35% stiffer than stock swaybar is utilized. CNC bent for a precise fit, the COBB front sway bar exactly replaces the factory swaybar and includes new mounting bushings.
Compatible with stock or most aftermarket endlinks

In the rear, an adjustable swaybar is utilized to allow fine tuning of the vehicle’s handling. In both positions, cornering ability is greatly improved. Adjustment may be made in order to increase/decrease the rear swaybars effective stiffness. Compared to the stock swaybar, the COBB adjustable rear sway bar is 50% stiffer in the “soft” setting and 90% stiffer on the “hard” setting. Exactly replaces factory swaybar and includes new mounting bushings.

User comments:
Made by Hotchkis

Dave@cobb:
>Our front bar also hits the subframe at full extension.  Installing
> the bar with the wheels off the ground (not the proper way but usually
> the
> easiest) will make install very difficult.  I am not positive if the
> bending is exactly the same as the Hotchkis bars as these were bent to
> our specs, but there is a good chance they copied our specs for their
> own bars since they bend them for us.
>
> I am looking to get the next production run done a bit different to
> eliminate this issue, but that will be a couple months out.
>
> So in short, I wouldn't get ours if the Hotchkis one are not working
> for you.

dazed_and_confused:
I just had my Cobb bars installed for $200 yesterday. I'll need to spend another $100 for an alignment. Only to read the next day that in November Cobb knew of this problem. Even if they take the bars back, I'm out a major labour charge. How little research was put into these bars?

bossboy
Originally installed while the car was lifted in the air and wheels were hanging.  clunking issues galore!
Once I had the shop do it with load on the wheels, no more clunking.....

defylogik:
with just a rear bar on the car, be wary of lifting off the throttle mid-turn if you are going at a good clip.  the back end will come around

mushdawg:
I just have the rear sway bar.  the front apparently has clearance issues, especially if you are dropped.  and it is one pain in the ass to install.  cobb says they are working on the front one to allow more clearance.  as for now, i will stick with just the rear sway.
i just installed it saturday, and so far i LOVE it

di66er:
I did notice a big difference with only the RSB in corners.  The rear of the car now seems to be more responsive than the front durring strong cornering (it was a bit unsetteling at first).  I can't wait to put in the FSB to get the total effect.

Coulda:
I set the RSB to the siffest setting. The car is alot closer to nuteral now. It still understears when your on the gas but as soon as you let off it gives you a little oversteer. I like it alot better then the stock setup.

mvl.MS3 Q) anybody have problems with the cobb sway bar bushings squeaking in cold weather?  the reason i ask is my stock bushing squeak and moan when it gets below 30 deg. F
Josh@Cobb A) When the proper lithium based grease, and enough of it is used there are generally no issues.  However you do have to grease it every 6 months to a year to keep them from squeaking.

WagonMan:
I would strongly recommend upgrading the sways as well.  To me that has a made a bigger difference in cornering then the Cobb springs. I find the upgraded sways provide much flatter cornering, and provide better feel at the limits of adhesion then the stock suspension.
In summary, Cobb springs for better balance and less float, sways for better, flatter cornering.






----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOTCHKIS MazdaSpeed3 Sport Sway Bar Set

Application: 2004-2007 MAZDA 3 & 2007- MAZDASPEED 3
Designed and manufactured by Hotchkis Sport Suspension specifically for the 2004-07 Mazda 3 and Mazda Speed 3. Our street, autocross and track event ready Sway Bar package features a massive 32mm tubular, 2 position adjustable rear bar and our 29mm sport front sway bar for owners looking for a distinct track and autocross handling advantage. Polyurethane bushings and heavy duty bushing brackets are also included along with zerk fittings for easy lubrication. These performance rockets from Mazda become tremendous fun to drive with the addition of Hotchkis Sport Sway Bars.
Benefits:
•Dramatically improves cornering potential due to increased front/rear roll stiffness
•Offers definite track and autocross advantage over stock sway bar package
•Adjustable rear bar allows suspension to be finely tuned for balanced handling
•Speed robbing understeer is eliminated allowing power to be applied earlier during corner exit
•Durable and reliable due to our extensive track testing


Features:
Lightweight, durable 1-1/8” (29mm) hollow Front Sway Bar

35% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 560 lbs/in

Lightweight, durable and adjustable 1-1/4” (32mm) hollow Rear Sway Bar
95% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 1625 lbs/in
140% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 2030 lbs/in
Easy to lubricate polyurethane bushings and heavy duty brackets with zerk fittings included

Price: $385.00

Front Sway Bar
27mm (Ø1-1/16") Hollow
Hole 1 = 35% Stiffer than Stock



Rear Sway Bar
32mm (Ø1-1/4") Hollow
Hole 1 = 95% Stiffer than Stock
Hole 2 = 140% Stiffer than Stock



Comments:

Mazda3Mods:
The hotchkis bar is hitting the subframe support, BADLY, even though it is slid all the way to the rear of the car like the instructions have said.
Until then, I was on the phone with Hotchkis for about 45 minutes, trying to get to the bottom of the problem with the bar. They basically said I am stuck with it and that there are some MS3s that hit (he said they have reported 6 cases, yea right, im betting alot more) anyway, he said we can get our money back, but he is almost sure we cannot recoup labor charges. I don't understand, all of the subframes are the same, this is ridiculous that their design sits like this. Every Racing Beat I have installed (which is thicker) clears just fine.
I will not be recommending these products to anyone. Racing Beat FTW.
Oh, btw I asked if there would be a revision and was laughed at over the phone, that such action would require free bars for anyone whose didn't fit correctly. I laughed back at him and said thats what real companies do

You cant really tell from the pics, but the bend where its hitting is SEVERELY (on the hotchkis is) different on the racing beat. I was looking at our shop car today and the racing beat is far from hitting.

MPS_Sleeper:
I'm having trouble with the front Hotchkis bar too.  At the moment it is okay as I have adjustable end-links (AWR's) and after much trial and error I have been able to adjust the links to a length were I am not getting contact issues.

Mazda3Mods:
Ok guys, to clear up somethings. Frostys is hitting in the exact same spot as above. His car is lowered on Cobb springs.
It hits in full droop and with full load, with the bushings secured to the rearmost part of the car. We discovers its also hitting a rear part of the bar on a subframe bolt.

Frosty:
It hits while driving.  You hear it when going over bumps/cracks.  Pretty much anything other than a smooth road.

Hotckis Company's Initial Response - Posted 03/04/2008 
The customer filing the complaint has been in communication with our company since December 2007 regarding noise coming from the front suspension of the Mazda 3. We assured him that we would conduct a thorough investigation and get back to him with our findings. After careful testing and a complete design review, we posted our findings on two popular Mazda internet forums www.mazda3forums.com & www.mazdas247.com The official company response posted on 2-22-08 was as follows: “Since the release of our Sport Sway Bars, we have received a handful of calls from Mazda Speed and 3 owners concerned about noise coming from the front of the vehicle after installing our parts. At Hotchkis Sport Suspension, we are always concerned about quality and fitment so we have researched the issue carefully. During the R&D process we installed the sway bars in our facility on three vehicles, 2 2007 Mazda Speed 3’s and one 2006 Mazda 3. The owners of these vehicles have not complained of noises. Just recently, we had one of the Mazda Speed 3 owners bring the vehicle back in again to further investigate any possible sources of noise from the front suspension. Here are our findings: Vehicle: 2007 Mazda Speed 3, Stock Height, Stock Suspension Hotchkis Sway Bars Installed- Mild clunking noise going over speed bumps. No noise experienced in driveways or during normal driving. Front Sway Bar Removed- We removed the front sway bar completely from the vehicle and drove it again over the same speed bumps. Clunking noise was still present. Engineering commented that noise is similar to noise associated with coil springs clunking. From past experience we have found that some owners do not always scrutinize noises until modifications have been made to a vehicle. While doing research on the forums we have found the following owner complaints regarding front end noises on parts unrelated to Hotchkis Products. Front end clunking with Mazda Speed sway bar.- http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=92971.0 Front end clunking while turning (stock suspension) - http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123695035 It seems like many of the posts regarding noises on the Mazda 3 and MS3 are end link related, and seem to appear on cars with both aftermarket and stock sway bars. Hotchkis Sport Suspension will be offering upgraded end links for sale in the near future for those who wish to upgrade. Hotchkis would like to thank everyone for supporting our products and your patience while we investigated the application. “ 
The customer filing the complaint has been in communication with our company since December 2007 regarding noise coming from the front suspension of the Mazda 3. 

bossboy
Originally installed while the car was lifted in the air and wheels were hanging.  clunking issues galore!
Once I had the shop do it with load on the wheels, no more clunking.....

Chaos4:
I hear those who installed while weight was on the wheels saying no clunking.  I hear those saying when they Reinstalled, after FIRST installing with wheels unsupported, that the clunking went away.  I hear Hotchkiss saying the CORRECT way to install is with the wheels supported.  Now why on earth would I want to go through the trouble of installing with wheels unsupported?  Just for the sake of an arguement?  I'll install with wheels supported, thank you.

xcoldricex:
i installed this yesterday - no clunks.
dropped the subframe, switched the bar out and put everything in but didn't tighten them all the way - then put a jack up to push up on the wheels (simulating weight on the wheels) and tightened everything down.  the bar does rotate a bit when you do this.  so yes, PUT WEIGHT ON THE WHEELS and you should be fine.

Lincoln:
I have the Hotchkis bars front and rear.
I just had my first track day on Sunday on my stock tires and wheels with 31psi front and 29psi rear, cold temp.
You can see my other mods in my sig line.
My car neither under or oversteered one time at the track.

Rotus8:
Here's an update to my installation. I put in AWR front adjustable ARB links, set to their shortest setting to try to alleviate the bar/subframe interference. http://www.awrracing.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=387
They are about 3/8" shorter than the stockers. The bar still touches the frame at full suspension droop, but I don't think it will ever touch in the real world. The adjustabliity will also let me tune left/right preload when I adjust the corner-weights later this month.

bville2ms3:
I have the Hotchkis front and rear sway bars and the H&R springs. I haven't had any problems with the front bar hitting the frame. No banging or clunking, even if I hit a speed bump going fast. It seems like it all depends on the installation and greasing. I've heard of some people with the same bars getting that clunking sound, but I greased everything very well, torqued everything down tightly and followed all the instructions and haven't had a problem.

speedfreak89:
Htchkis hit badly on some MS3s (yes, some),



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RACING BEAT FSB

Specs: to be posted

Comments:
Frosty:
Does not hit like the hotchkis bar.
the RB has a smaller diameter, does not have such a pronounced angle around the drive shaft, and has a similar design to the stock bar where it connects to the end link.  Other than that, the bars have the same basic design.  Since the Hotchkis is a larger bar there was less room for the suspension and drive components to work properly, resulting in this...(pics of rubbing evidence)
The parts where the paint is chipped is where it was banging up against some portions of the car. This was not done by a faulty install or a fluke, but rather by larger diameter and (what i believe) is a bad design.  If you notice the racing beat has a closer design to the stock bar where it goes over the drive shaft.  Its not as tall as the Hotchkis, and that is the spot where the majority of the damage was done.

Mazda3Mods:
You cant really tell from the pics, but the bend where its hitting is SEVERELY (on the hotchkis is) different on the racing beat. I was looking at our shop car today and the racing beat is far from hitting.

speedfreak89:
Racing Beat FTW for sure, no hits and just as thick (as cobb/hotchkis)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TRI-POINT ENGINEERING

http://tripointengineering.com/product_info.php?products_id=4023


We are now offering our in-house built rear sway bar for the MS/Mazda 3. This is the same bar that is being used on our Mazda 3 Turbo Kit Project Car that was debuted in a shoot-out versus the Mazdaspeed 3.

The stock Mazda 3 sway bar provides around 230 pounds per inch. The stock Mazdaspeed 3 sway bar provides around 470 pounds per inch. With our Tri-Point swaybar design and 3-hole adjustment factor for fine tuning;

* Hole #1 is 750 pounds per inch
* Hole #2 is 825 pounds per inch

* Hole #3 is 1000 pounds per inch

FFF: "Their Stock lbs/in seem to conflict with the values provided by Hotchkis and Progress"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PROGRESS

http://raceroots.com/index.php/products/mazda/mazdaspeed-3/suspension/progress-rear-sway-bar.html

- Bar Size: 32mm
- Bar type: Tubular Bar
- 2 Way adjustable
- Polyurethane bushings
- Reinforced mounting plate!

STOCK: 25mm Solid non-adj 862.12 lbs/in

2 settings of stiffness:
(soft) 56% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 1342.89 lbs/in
(firm) 79% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 1542.27 lbs/in

Dash08: "There is also a huge difference in response and stability during highway cruising. Simple lane changes and hard maneuvers are rock solid and induce an added feeling of confidence and security in the event something sudden were to occur. All of this was done with the bar on the stiff setting. I recently switched to the softer setting and it is still an improvement over stock. I switched it back to stiff and intend to leave it there. Car feels great!!"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

STOCK OEM

Comments:
The stock bar, although a bit thinner, does not come in contact with anything at full extension or under load.
 
#6 ·
Re: Mazdaspeed3 Suspension Guide (What is available, specs, driving impressions)

MATCHED SETS


CP-E

Talk from "Stretch" of development by cp-e of matched springs/struts

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COBB SPRINGS AND SWAY BARS

User comments:

HitIt:
The handling improvement is incredible. The understeer is virtually gone, the floaty feel over corner bumps is gone, and the tightness everywhere else is noticeable too.
It is a little more rough and bouncy, but not bad at all. You can definitely feel the difference though. The swaybars are so stiff I get some 3-wheel motion on driveways and steep turning intersections. That’s a surprise. All in all a fair compromise, you don’t get something for nothing.

daniyar79:
So needless to say that Grand Canyon trip helped me make up my mind and I went and ordered the whole Stage 2 Suspension Kit from Cobb. I was a little sceptical at first until I saw the video they posted from track testing. After installing the kit all I can say is WOW. I know Cobbs reputation is excellent, but they really impressed me. The springs match the stock shocks perfectly. No bounce whatsoever and the car has the feel of the stock suspension in terms of comfort. But the performance is really what stands out the most. The car feels totally neutral, corners like it's on rails, and when I drive down the street I don't feel every single bump with my rear end.
P.S. I could not install the front sway bar myself, I got the original one out, but there is no way I could sneak the Cobb sway bar in. I don't want to brag, but I consider my mechanical skills to be pretty advanced, so I was really embarrassed to call my mechanic and tell him that I couldn't put the car back together. Maybe I just didn't have the right tools, I am sure a lift would have helped. This is just a heads up for those that want to try this themselves, you might not succeed.

di66er:
The car rides great.  I do feel a minimal amount of floatiness, but I'm content with the results and don't plan on further suspension upgrades.

Cobb suspension test driver:
The Mazda was much quicker to turn with the Cobb tuned suspension.  Much less body roll, interestingly enough the ride didn't become harsh over the rumble strips.  I attribute this to massive swaybars, while still retaining compliant spring rates.  The car now could transition much quicker through west 7-8.  Now the Mazdaspeed 3 would rotate just the right amount without having to add time robbing counter-steer.  Even on the warm up lap the car was responding to throttle steering inputs.  It was still difficult to get the car to take a solid set exiting the lower speed corners like west 6, and 10 since the turbo torque was easily enough to overwhelm the front tires.  Even at high speeds when traction was exceeded the car would break away smoothly and it was very easy to correct.  I wasn't the only one surprised by this little cars speed, there were a few Porsche drivers who weren't expecting the little red Mazda to squeeze past them, then walk away.  Favorite bit about this car was turns 1-4, aim the steering for your apex, than play with the throttle and the car would dance brilliantly.

pasadenams3:
The ride is noticeably but not uncomfortably firmer and, while I previously described the handling as being like on rails, now it's like on magnetic rails. This thing can corner.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


STOCK/OEM

Springs 188lbs/in front, 171 lbs/in rear,

Comments found:
Jouncy, High speed Float,
stock springs too stiff for the stock rebound dampening.

robino:
the MS3 is the absolute best stock handling front wheel drive car, period.
the float is in your minds...any car will float at extreme speeds, especially on uneven roads...it's a fucking street car on street suspension for Christ' sake!
you want it to be on rails, go get you the highest rate coilover/springs and then when your teeth fillings rattle out you'll think back to how nice the car floated at 150mph.
the MS3's handling was developed IN GERMANY by engineers who tested the car at 150mph speeds on the Nurburgring, there ain't another front wheel drive that will handle like the MS3, not a Mini, nothing.
if you're changing springs, don't forget the all wheel alignment, if you're changing wheels, stay with the recommended tire sizes, some of you think that you're improving your cars by doing some modifications to the suspension, when in fact, you're hurting it.
To anyone who says Mazda didn't do a fanfuckingtastik job on the MS3's suspension, i say, get off the drugs.

MazdaSteve3:
It is strange that the damping feels adequate for short bumps and dips, but on the bigger dips, it feels like something gets pushed farther than it wants to go, and the only means of revenge that it has is to give you the zero gravity treatment.

Boost Addict:
I was extremely impressed with how gentle yet stiff the suspension was, and it corners worlds better than my Mustang. They did a brilliant job in finding that perfect balance between performance and comfort, and I wouldn't like to sacrafice that.

Cobb Suspension test drver:
Stock:
The car understeers heavily as most front wheel drive cars do.  But the stock suspension had surprisingly little body roll.  The turn in was sharp and quick and rewarding.  But that's where the fun ends, the car takes too much time to settle, and the front end goes numb.  This requires enormous patience for the driver to wait for the car to get to its apex before accelerating out.  This car was challenging to get extra speed out because it really forced you to take late apex's so as not to bleed precious traction off.  The only way to get a satisfactory line was to trail brake heavily on entry to rotate the car towards your apex.  Once the car was down on its apex, you could begin judiciously feeding in the abundant torque with just a hint of torque steer on exit.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
#7 ·
Re: Mazdaspeed3 Suspension Guide (What is available, specs, driving impressions)

MIX AND MATCH
(driving impressions only, see above for specs on individual components)​

COBB SPRINGS/KONI YELLOWS

daniyar79:
I set the shocks at one full turn clockwise from softest position. The next morning the car felt great on smoother roads, rough areas felt weird. To make things short, I ended up cutting off the lower half of the bumpstopper to increase the travel. The clunking noise that appeared on the second day was my suspension riding on those bumpstoppers. So I guess if you are using stock springs you should be ok, but if you are using anything lower than stock you will have to cut them. I ended up cutting the front ones too, but not as much. I personally think Koni should include shorter, higher quality bumpstopper with their shocks as their Sport shock is really designed for lowering springs. Maybe it's fine on MZ3.
Now for the ride quality. Both front and rear are set about midway between firm and soft and the car feels amazing. These shocks need about 100 miles to settle down and firm up a bit, at first they feel a little soft. Whatever bounce was left after I installed my Cobb springs half a year ago, especially in the rear, has been totally eliminated. I can't believe Mazda chose those pieces of crap they call FoMoCo shocks for this car, no wonder they replace them in UK. These shocks make the ride a lot more comfortable, yet much more controlled and firmer, but not harder.

Now that I had a whole week to drive with these shocks, I am in love with my car all over again like the day I bought it.
The car actually feels different, much more solid, and quieter going over bumps and cracks. It's definately firmer, but not harsh in any way. My wife loved it because she is not getting car sick any more from all the bouncing. The car feels glued to the road. There are a few rough spots on the freeway on my way to work, and with Cobb Spring/Stock shocks I felt like the wheels were bouncing off the road in some areas, the car felt light. Now I can feel the Konis push the wheels into the road, the contact has improved dramatically and both compression and rebound are much more controlled. I am guessing the way I set them up also had something to do with it. Like I said before the rears are 1 full turn clockwise from soft position, and fronts are 180 degrees toward firm.
I don't know how these shocks perform with stock springs, but in combination with Cobb I feel like this is the way this car should have come off the assembly line. This is by far the best upgrade I have done and if I knew how good it felt I wouldn't have waited 6 months to purchase these shocks. I just hope now that they will last a few years.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MAZDASPEED SPRINGS/KONI YELLOWS

Spring Specs:
0.59" drop

30% increase in spring rate front and rear over stock

front rates 244
rear rates 222


Driver comments:

dp3:
I wound up adjusting both front and rear at 3/4 firm. The ride is incredibly better than stock. I think that when I installed the MS springs that the damping/rebound rate went too far out of desirable specs as it just got way rougher (more bounce) Doing the rears first everything improved a lot. Doing the fronts 1.5 mos later the improvement was even more substantial.
The high speed float on undulating roadway is gone. High side wallow on hard turn in is gone. Car has a very slight neutral power oversteer and goes close to neutral under power in turn in on hard cornering. Balance on acceleration and decelleration is greatly improved over stock.


I have the MS springs and the Koni's set 3/4 firm front and rear. The car seems about perfect for me. Neutral for the most part, with a slight oversteer under hard turn in when OFF throttle. Under throttle it feels about perfect.
A bit harsh in terms of ride, but more forgiving than OEM.
I am getting rebound damping. We have a pretty bad FWY here with a big dip and at 80 MPH with my oem set up, I would get the high speed pitch and float. With the current setup the dampers depress and I can hear or feel no bottoming. So I am guessing that there is sufficient travel. Pitch and float are gone. I am at approx 18k miles now.
I think that I would use this set up again.

The performance overall with the new springs (mazdaspeed sport springs) increased, but the damping/rebound rate went way off with the OEM speed dampers and the new Mazdaspeed replacement springs, which lowered the car. It exhibited that jounce/bounce, jarring type of ride that drives some people nuts.
When I installed the new Konis those issues not only disappeared but the ride over all become more comfortable than the car when it was stock AND cured the OEM handling issues as well.

Koni's are rebound adjust only.

MazdaSteve3:
Got the MS springs this evening, and decided to go ahead and put them on. I did not install the camber links. I left the Konis at the softest settings for now. The ride is much smoother than with just the Konis

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cobb springs Hotchkis sway bars

User comments:
WagonMan:
First impression is that the ride is a bit rougher over small bumps, as expected. Over bigger bumps the impact is similar but the suspension is less upset and you get much less feeling of undamped body motion. Over more undulating bumps (the kind that would really upset the MS3 before) I notice less of that "the front end doesn't know what the back end is doing" feeling. Generally speaking it feels as if the suspension is doing a better job at absorbing the bumps without resulting in un-necessary body movement.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
#9 ·
Re: Mazdaspeed3 MS3 Suspension Guide (What is available, specs, driving impressions)

where can you get those cusco's? i can't find them!
 
#10 ·
Re: Mazdaspeed3 MS3 Suspension Guide (What is available, specs, driving impressions)

[quote author=eternalspeed3 link=topic=119969.msg2527619#msg2527619 date=1218220958]
where can you get those cusco's? i can't find them!
[/quote]

Dont know.
Right now I am just pulling info from everywhere.
Some of it may well turn out to be wrong and be edited later.
Some info may be for items that are only available overseas, these will be noted as such if I find that out.
It is a work in progress, I expect it to take weeks if not months to gather, collate, post, edit and organise it.
 
#11 ·
Re: Mazdaspeed3 MS3 Suspension Guide (What is available, specs, driving impressions)

[quote author=eternalspeed3 link=topic=119969.msg2527619#msg2527619 date=1218220958]
where can you get those cusco's? i can't find them!
[/quote]

you have to order them and those are coilovers made for the regular Mazda 3.
Contact THMotorsports (Sponsor/Vendor on this forum)
 
#12 ·
Re: Mazdaspeed3 MS3 Suspension Guide (What is available, specs, driving impressions)

for Sway Bars, you need to add in Hotchkis. they are the other most popular besides cobbs...some say better.
 
#13 ·
Re: Mazdaspeed3 MS3 Suspension Guide (What is available, specs, driving impressions)

also remember that tein is releasing some products for the ms3 with proper spring rates
 
#14 ·
Re: Mazdaspeed3 MS3 Suspension Guide (What is available, specs, driving impressions)

OK I just found out there is a max post size.
I am bumping against it in the Coilovers section, so I will need to either spread that out into more than one post later, or remove some stuff to post more info in there.

What do you think.
Spread it between two posts (I have room), or just remove some possibly repetitive user impressions to be able to post more specs, and links to manufacturer web sites?
 
#15 ·
Re: Mazdaspeed3 MS3 Suspension Guide (What is available, specs, driving impressions)

spread into 2 post. i think the user comments are good even if some are repetitive
 
#16 ·
Re: Mazdaspeed3 MS3 Suspension Guide (What is available, specs, driving impressions)

remember you should also leave room for pictures so if anything jst start another post and reserve the like first 5 posts and tell the mods
 
#22 ·
[quote author=FreeFlyFreak link=topic=119969.msg2783860#msg2783860 date=1228345486]
Updated with my impressions of the Koni FSD's 2100-4040, paired with the stock MS3 springs.
[/quote]

So far I'm leaning towards the FSD's, especially after your new update on them. You want to be the guinea pig again and see how they pair with the Eibach's? :)
 
#23 ·
I almost went that route....

But only wanted to change one thing at a time.
It doesnt show up as an approved combo on the koni site, and they sell eibach fsd combos.
Could be the combo hasn't been tested it yet!?
That is why the FSD's weren't recommended in the beginning.
The MS3 specific Eibachs just came out, and that was after they had their MS3 test mule in for the FSD's....... anyone near Hebron, KY, maybe you could get some free struts/springs by volunteering to be the test mule for the combo.


Anyway right now it is way better than stock.
I would like it to be even better, but I dont relish ripping into it again, and the gain v's expense/work doesnt seem worth it. Unless it is a sure thing, reviewed by someone I trust.

The dangerous stuff is gone.
So I will let someone else be the guinea pig for now.......

Do you feel up to it???
 
#25 ·
I just want to add my own comments to FreeFly's about the Koni FSD's. I've expressed my thoughts about them in other posts but not a sticky.

Basically, I agree with almost everything he said. I am also using the OEM springs, which I personally think are just about right for road use by enthusiasts who push the car hard. 1st track test will be in May, but I'm encouraged so far by what I'm feeling on the road.

The car is just so much more controllable and has far greater stability over bumpy back roads than it had before, by an order of magnitude. The crazy bounding up and down the stock dampers allowed is almost entirely defeated. There just is no comparison. I can safely drive substantially faster over the same section of familiar roads that sent the OEM setup into kill-me mode. On smooth sections, the car is very nicely balanced with some increased (but still smooth) compression damping that helps with pitch, roll, and brake dive.

Describing them precisely is a little bit difficult. The FSD valve is constantly adjusting the valving in response to the velocity of the damper shaft. It's a basically a trick new twist on a dual circuit damper. According to Koni, they need adequate suspension travel to work properly, which rules out most aftermarket springs. If you hit the bump stops they respond differently than a standard shock design - the FSD valve reads that as a high frequency bump in the road and relaxes the damping, which is exactly what you don't want. Fortunately, they almost never hit the bump stops unless you misread the road and hit a bump way too fast. Keep in mind that if you hit the same bump at the same speed, the OEM shocks would simply launch the car into the great unknown. So while it may seem like a weakness of the FSD design it really isn't (Lamborghini doesn't have a problem with it), you just have to drive the car properly. And even if it does happen, they recover very quickly, more so than the OEM dampers did, so the result is far less severe.

How do they affect the balance? Not very much, IMO. Balance, on a smooth road, is generally defined by the car's design, spring rates, and sway bar stiffness. Since I didn't change that, the balance is pretty much exactly the same - low speed understeer that goes away with speed, becoming more or less neutral at 50-60mph. And because they control body motions so much better, that balance is much easier to modulate. Result: more speed, more fun, more safety.

Ride comfort is in the eyes of the beholder. Many people mistake big bump compliance and absorption of high frequency road chatter as float. It isn't, in fact it's what a well designed suspension is supposed to do. You don't need to feel every invisible ripple in the road to drive the car very quickly. In fact, the suppleness of it's high frequency mode actually improves traction by allowing the tires to stay planted. Choppy roads that made the stock setup skitter around are a non-problem now, so you can maintain more speed and get better stability, especially under braking, if you hit some crumbled roadwork or choppy pavement.

Unlike FreeFly, I find them to be a bit harder over certain types of surfaces and smoother over others. Not by much either way, but the payoff is greater speed, stability, and control. Then again, it goes over urban speed humps and long neglected potholes much more comfortably now. So, overall, ride comfort is pretty much a wash compared to the OEM dampers. Less busy on smoother roads, but a little firmer over dips and bumps.

Ride quality however, is a different thing. To me it describes how well a suspension can deal with a wide variety of conditions without behaving badly or being too firm to be comfortable. This is where the FSD really shines. You get a big improvement in handling across the board with little to any comfort penalty. Mostly, the car just does everything better.

Some installation issues to watch for: 1) Koni puts way too much paint on the fronts, where they seat into the knuckles. Your life will be much easier if you simply grind it away with a wire drill brush and use anti-seize so they don't get stuck there. 2) The rear damper bushing/bracket is too narrow for the receiving bracket, using washers to fill the gap is recommended. You can deform the clamp enough by over torquing the bolt, but time will tell if that works in the long run (it's what I did). 3) The front end will be lifted a bit. That will settle down a little over time but my car sits slightly high in the front. I suspect that's good for handling though, and it certainly gives you more travel, which the FSD's like. In fact, since I carry so much weight around for my work, I'm looking for a way to mod the rear spring perches to compensate and make it level.

To summarize, IMHO this is an excellent change for those whose priority is real-world ride and handling. It is not a just a mod, it's a substantial engineering improvement. It definitely isn't the raciest setup, but they solve all the major problems with virtually no downside. More aggressive setups are likely to shave some tenths off a lap time, but this isn't a dedicated track car or autocrosser, it's just my road car, and the FSD's just made it better in almost every possible way.

BTW, to the guy who said it was developed on the Ring and needs no improvement, you're absolutely wrong. Mazdaspeed did the bulk of their testing right here in California, mostly at their own track, Laguna Seca. The stock dampers might do well there but in Real World, they just don't work all that well. All else being equal, I don't even need to guess that the FSD's are a big improvement over the stock dampers. Which, mysteriously, are absolute crap for ride and handling on actual roads and city streets.

Anyway, what I've been trying to say is that the Koni FSD's solve the main problems with the stock suspension, and will yield a huge improvement compared to the the driving dynamics compared to stock. IOW, you simply get a better version of the same basic car.

What you won't get is ultimate handling, because you've only changed the dampers. Better tires would help, but if you have the money and really want it to handle, regardless of the consequences, there are many options for that. I just know that the FSD's are very good ROAD shocks, and the increased performance they provide, without compromising ride comfort for the most part, is a huge improvement over the stock setup.

IOW, if you just want to fix your bouncy MS3 without punishing yourself on your commute, I think they're a very effective solution for the money, all things considered.
 
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