[*txmica3*]

hey guys, looking to get feedback on a possible set up for myself.

amp- pioneer MONO 800W (GM-7200M)
box- simple sealed single 10 inch (12.5x12.5x12.75)
sub- heres where i need help. im keeping stock hu and speakers, so im just looking for a little more bump. i listen to all kinds of rock, some rap/hip-hop, reggae and alternative. going with a sealed box will help keep the bass tight i think, which is good especially for reggae and rock. anyway here are a few ideas. also shoot other ideas if you have them, but nothing too pricey.

http://www.millionbuy.com/apnswe1042.html

http://www.millionbuy.com/piotsw257d2.html

http://www.millionbuy.com/jla10w3v2d2.html

i hear JL's are really good, but im not really up for spending the money for it, so im considering the alpine, but i want some personal feedback. thanks.


also, any recommendations for wireing?? thanks.

 

[mazda225]

Alpine Type-E 10" 1 or 2 of them those things are kickin gives you good sound all around n if u even want to bump it up it can handle it.

 

[geewhizbang]

I posted this somewhere else just a moment ago to almost the same question:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-460

I spent about 10 minutes typing up an elaborate comparison between the Dayton Reference Series sub that I posted before and the alpine mentioned here and then it suddenly vanished into hyperspace or something like that.

The alpine costs about $100 / Dayton $130 (both including shipping, though the alpine can be found locally .. but probably at something closer to list). The dayton is mail order only unless you live near the approximately 5 cities that it can be purchased from a dealer.

The most important difference is the Free Air Resonance: 33 Hz for the alpine vs 22 Hz for the Dayton.

The alpine has a kevlar reinforced paper cone. The dayton is aluminum (a modest win for the Dayton).
The alpine has about 11 mm Xmax. vs 14 mm for the dayton. The listed box volumes are the same if you compare max volume of the alpine to what I recommend for the dayton 1.2 cu ft; the "minimum" volume of most car subs are usually way too small and you will get a really boomy sub that doesn't go very low if you follow them.

Add to this the cast frame for the dayton vs the stamped steel for the alpine, and it is pretty much a clear cut win for the dayton. The dayton has been tested on independent reviewing sites and -along with the Peerless XLS - listed as one of the most accurate subs they have ever tested.

The Peerless XLS is a good choice, especially if you want to have a passive radiator instead of a port. It has a really huge xmax too. It works well either ported or sealed, but is probably more optimally ported. Dayton (partsexpress.com) and Madisound both sell the Peerless drivers.

If you go for two 10" drivers, you may as well just buy one 12" dayton; it is only about $30 more and moves more air than 2 alpine 10" would. The volume would go up to 2 cu ft, which does take up a lot of room (this is what I have btw).

I already had mine so I was familiar with the numbers, but there are probably other comparisons that can be done with other woofers here. It is really useful to know xmax and Fs especially. If the efficiency is exceptionally low, that is also something that be a big downside since you have to buy a bigger amp for the same effect.

 

[mentalcase]

I listen to mostly rock/alternative music and the subs i liked to most were infinitys. No matter what sub i put the against they had the best controlled response. They did not go nuts and start rumbling like crazy, like my kicker l5 does now. If your into rock id recommend looking into 2 10in subs from infinity.

 

[edrection]

eeeewww. Alpine type-E. Stay away.

 

[*txmica3*]

[quote author=edrection link=topic=66452.msg1140497#msg1140497 date=1168358406]
eeeewww. Alpine type-E. Stay away.
[/quote]

lol justify it man...

and to GEEWHIZBAG, lots of good info, only problem with it is im trying to get a box and sub for around 100. the box i can get for prolly about 30. spending 130 on a sub is a little more than i want to do mainly because im going for lightweight (gotta take it out alot cuz im a drummer, to haul my set which yes does fit in my car, +1 for hatches :lol: ) and something that doesnt just rumble for no reason. tight bass for rock and reggae beats. basically, is there a cheaper version of the dayton?

 

[edrection]

type E's are just cheap. I had a E 12" that was given to me but it wasnt strong enough and bottomed out easily. I dont listen to rap, just rock.

You can spend maybe double and get a type-R and have a much better sub.

 

[geewhizbang]

Unfortunately, your objective is pretty close to the why-bother range. You have to spend at last $300 for amp+sub+box to get a sub worth the bother of even installing.

I have a $200 bazooka tube I'll sell ya for $50. It sounds OK, but really all it does is fill out your bottom end slightly. It doesn't really "sub" woof.

I would take it out to get stuff in the car, and then it would be weeks before I put it back in, because it really wasn't worth the trouble.

 

[*txmica3*]

hmm, well right now i have a box of 2 polk audios in a vented box with fiberglass pannel on it and a pioneer mono 800watt amp. however its not mine (friends) and im considering buying it from him. amp is near new and doesnt look like its ever been hooked up (plus the fact its a mono amp on a box with 2 subs lol) but the box needs to be recarpeted and one of the subs rattles when it hits. he told me i just gotta take the sub out and tighten something on it and that it happened before. his price is 110. im debating buying the whole thing and just selling things i dont need or makeing him an offer on just the amp. iono if hell do it though cuz then hell have to sell the rest without an amp. but this box weighs alot lol its about the weight of a person in my car.

i could use one polk sub in the enclosure (dont know how powerful it is, supposedly it can hit 600-800) and just part with the box as a project and the other sub.

its confusing i know. im sorry

 

[*txmica3*]

[quote author=mentalcase link=topic=66452.msg1140485#msg1140485 date=1168358047]
I listen to mostly rock/alternative music and the subs i liked to most were infinitys. No matter what sub i put the against they had the best controlled response. They did not go nuts and start rumbling like crazy, like my kicker l5 does now. If your into rock id recommend looking into 2 10in subs from infinity.
[/quote]

by chance were you looking at this?? or a different model? ive never heard an infinity sub

http://www.millionbuy.com/inf1252w.html

 

[*txmica3*]

GEEWHIZBAG, i have a question for you. i read a few other topics on here and i have a comparison.

fi vs. dayton

https://ssl.perfora.net/www.ficaraudio.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=1545a41acaeffda/shopdata/0040_X/product_overview.shopscript

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-460&ctab=4#Tabs

i saw great things written about the fi from others, but im nowhere near expert when it comes to minor details. could you help me out?

also, how does kicker rate in terms of wireing? http://www.millionbuy.com/kik05pk4.html

thanks.

 

[geewhizbang]

The fi both look like excellent woofers for the price. The baskets look especially nice with really rigid spokes arranged radially and in an open arrangement. The PE drivers have a bit lower Fs, somewhat less efficiency, and slightly less xmax. The extra low Fs of the PE seems worth paying $30 more for and losing a bit of efficiency and xMax. It will just go a few Hz lower, and that is GOOD.

It is also good that the PE driver is mono, so you don't have to drive it with two channels like the FI, which could save some money and certaily some complexity. But if someone gave me an FI instead of the PE driver I would be quite happy with it.

 

[*txmica3*]

so the mono amp that i have now would not work with the fi? it needs 2 channels?

sorry to keep askin questions, but your very knowledgeable in this field so thats what you get i appreciate the help.

 

[geewhizbang]

you can run both voice coils in parallel from the same amp, as long as it is 2-ohm stable. Most, but not all amps are 2-ohm stable.

Two 4-ohm loads in parallel give a two-ohm load to the amp. If wire them in series (which I don't recommend), you would get a rather steep 8 ohm load, which a home audio amp would be very happy with, but most car amps are designed for 4 ohm loads.

The lower the ohms, the more current has to run to produce the power. Generally you get a little more power out of the amp at lower impedances, but you also work it harder too, so the output transistors can get much warmer. Running the amp at 8 ohms would lower the power output, and you may then need a bigger amp.

Some amps are not 2 ohm stable. They will go into an uncontrolled oscillation (and hopefully shut themselves down safely) if run at less than 4 ohms. If the amp has two channels that are bridged, it would probably be better to unbridge them and run one channel to each voice coil so that the impedance doesn't get too low.

You can look at impedance sort of like the gears on a mountain bike. If you are in the wrong gear of a bike you have an impedance mismatch, such as when you are in a downhill gear trying to start the bike from a stop. You have to apply more pressure (voltage) on the pedals than your legs can deliver, so you don't go anywhere. But if you are in the right gear, you can apply a lighter pressure, but get a faster speed (current) to deliver much more power and move pretty quickly.

 

[jcslow]

i roll with the 2 12" p millers

(i have gotten a new amp and hidden the wires since then!)

 

[geewhizbang]

What I have compiled about the speakers posted so far.


[tr][td][/td][td]Model No[/td][td]Price with shipping[/td][td]Power Handling[/td][td]Impedence[/td][td]Fs[/td][td]Qes[/td][td]EBP (Fs/Qes)[/td][td]Ported Box OK[/td][td]Sealed Box OK[/td][td]Frame Type[/td][td]Shorting Rings[/td][td]Efficiency 1 W / 1 m (db)[/td][td]Xmax (mm)[/td][td]Cone Type[/td][td]Voice Coil Former[/td][td]Comment[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Dayton Reference HF[/td][td]RSS265HF[/td][td]$135[/td][td]350[/td][td]4[/td][td]23[/td][td]0.45[/td][td]51.1[/td][td]Fair[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Cast[/td][td]yes[/td][td]84[/td][td]14[/td][td]Aluminum[/td][td]Aluminum[/td][td]Great value[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Dayton Reference HO[/td][td]RSS265HO[/td][td]$135[/td][td]350[/td][td]4[/td][td]24[/td][td]0.36[/td][td]66.7[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Cast[/td][td]yes[/td][td]84[/td][td]12[/td][td]Aluminum[/td][td]Aluminum[/td][td]Good value[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Peerless XLS[/td][td]830452[/td][td]$175[/td][td]200[/td][td]8[/td][td]18.6[/td][td]0.18[/td][td]103.3[/td][td]Yes![/td][td]No[/td][td]Cast[/td][td]yes[/td][td]85.4[/td][td]12.5[/td][td]Paper[/td][td]Aluminum[/td][td]Exceptional Fs, inconvenient 8 ohm impedance[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Bazooka P. Miller[/td][td]RSW1024DVC[/td][td]$120[/td][td]300[/td][td]4[/td][td]34[/td][td]0.42[/td][td]81.0[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Fair[/td][td]Stamped[/td][td]?[/td][td]84[/td][td]14[/td][td]Paper[/td][td]Kapton (Plastic)[/td][td]Really lousy Fs, claimed xMax reduced in half (it is supposed to be one-way)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]FI[/td][td]X10[/td][td]$109[/td][td]300[/td][td]4[/td][td]25.9[/td][td]0.35[/td][td]74.0[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Cast[/td][td]?[/td][td]85.5[/td][td]16[/td][td]Paper[/td][td]Aluminum[/td][td]Good value[/td][/tr]


I lowered the Xmax of the bazooka, because it is very apparent from looking at the surround that it doesn't have +/- 28 mm of xMax. Their brochure mentions that it is a full stroke, but doesn't mention that this is usually quoted one-way. It is even dubious if it has even the 14 mm, as it has the skimpiest surround roll of all of these. The Kapton voice coil former of the Bazooka makes the quoted power handling a bit dubious too, since it is a lot harder to cool. BTW, if you think I'm being hard on bazooka, I have one of their tube subs anyone can have for the shipping if they want it. It would still be a bad deal.

 

[Mathman]

[quote author=*txmica3* link=topic=66452.msg1141157#msg1141157 date=1168377244]

and to GEEWHIZBAG, lots of good info, only problem with it is im trying to get a box and sub for around 100. the box i can get for prolly about 30. spending 130 on a sub is a little more than i want to do mainly because im going for lightweight (gotta take it out alot cuz im a drummer, to haul my set which yes does fit in my car, +1 for hatches :lol: ) and something that doesnt just rumble for no reason. tight bass for rock and reggae beats. basically, is there a cheaper version of the dayton?
[/quote]

Dayton offers a less expensive line, but I like this guy for the money:

http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/product_info.php?t=2&products_id=106

Throw it in a 0.5 ft^3 sealed box and call it a day. It’s at your budget, it’ll keep your enclosure small so you can move it around as needed, and it doesn’t look too heavy. I’ve not heard this particular woofer, but generally prefer ED to Alpine for woofers.

 

[geewhizbang]

Elemental design parameters:

Qts: .29
Qes: .32
Qms: 2.7
Fs: 25.5 Hz
Re: 3.5
Vas: 46.7 L
Mms: 110 g
Bl: 15.1 T*m
SPL: 86.7 dB
Sd: 350 cm^2
Xmax: 9.3 mm
Voice Coil: 62.5 mm

The most important thing is that the xmax && spl are acceptable and Fs is nice and low. It of course has a stamped frame at this price level but the performance looks ok. The flat size makes it even easier to get in a small box. The Dayton & FI woofers are worth the extra cost, but this would give a good result as long as you don't push it too hard. The 9.3 mm x-max means that it will be somewhat easier to overextend. It probably WILL overextend if you play loud hip hop or bass-heavy rock & roll. Almost anything else it should work pretty well. So you would be looking at about $95 for an amp such as my Profile Baja, about $30 for wire install kit, about $40 for a box and $60 for the woofer, assuming you do the install yourself. Which is still 2X your budget, but I can't imagine anything cheaper working well.

 

[Mathman]

[quote author=geewhizbang link=topic=66452.msg1144920#msg1144920 date=1168554961]
The most important thing is that the xmax && spl are acceptable and Fs is nice and low. It of course has a stamped frame at this price level but the performance looks ok. The flat size makes it even easier to get in a small box. The Dayton & FI woofers are worth the extra cost, but this would give a good result as long as you don't push it too hard. The 9.3 mm x-max means that it will be somewhat easier to overextend. It probably WILL overextend if you play loud hip hop or bass-heavy rock & roll. Almost anything else it should work pretty well. So you would be looking at about $95 for an amp such as my Profile Baja, about $30 for wire install kit, about $40 for a box and $60 for the woofer, assuming you do the install yourself. Which is still 2X your budget, but I can't imagine anything cheaper working well.
[/quote]

Yup - great info! The Fs is low, but given the Q factors, the Fb will be around 50Hz. Should sound very nice in-car.