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Discussion Starter #21
Alrighty. More info for yall thanks to a very knowledgeable mister.

Performing logs:

- Do 3 consecutive logs. That way you use the "majority rule" for any data that happens to vary. Assuming you get the same value in 2 logs, and a different value in the third log, you would use the value that appeared twice.

Knock Decay Table:

Here's a quote

I found this table basically dictates how long the ecu attacks a knock encounter.

The ots and stock values carry on and on. Reducing timing.

Most times when it's not even needed after knock has been squashed

This is good for and "umbrella" timing table that will work for many cars in many regions.

Since you customizing your timing you can take advantage of a more aggressive setting here.

I like to use a setting of 150.

This makes the ecu come in, pull timing and richen the afr which squashes the knock. then the get the fuck outta the way and go back to flagging the appropriate timing table.

That's one reason it's good to use fast decay.

The other reason is, if knock comes right back then you know you've got a real issue in that region of load and rpm.
Then I asked, if I see the knock coming back in that rpm range, does that mean that is my max value for timing?

A: Yes. At that point timing as increased too much.

That means you pull it back a degree or so.

- Temperature (for timing tuning)

The temp won't affect timing, however the grade of gas will.

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Towards the end of April I should be gathering quite a little more info, and I'll try to do somewhat of a "step by step" guide as to what to do/what to tune first, some key things to look into, and then what to do and so on.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Small update. Was experiencing quite a bit of knock at part throttle, and after a new refill, at WOT.
Refilled at Shell instead of at Esso and the knock basically disappeared. Thankfully it was fuel related.

Spark Plugs

Quick note. The stock k04 turbo prefers stock heat range plugs. There really isn't a need for one step colder 99% of the time on the k04. Once you upgrade to a bigger snail, that's a different story.

Since I'm so smart, I bought new plugs before doing ALL the research and making sure. Oh well
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Alright a little more info for you guys!

Spoke with one of the tuners, I was asking him regarding leaning out AFRs

As far as gaining power from leaner AFRs at WOT, he said he couldn't quantify any gains in terms of power based on the data (logs) he had. However, it "felt" as if the turbo spooled faster. Then again, going from 11.4 to 11.6, it might just be in your head.

Our DI engines tend to make more power at higher timing levels, so it may be worth simply enriching towards redline where timing begins to induce knock, rather than pulling timing at a lean mixture.

If the injector duty cycle gets high, then we can lean out the mixture a bit.

With that being said, I should be beginning to make progress sometime next week.
 

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Interesting stuff. all new to me though since I have never done a custom tune on a FI. Never done a custom tune at all lol.

I am curious with leaning AFR's what numbers you will be changing to try and keep timing up and enriching at the same time on the way to redline while keeping knock down and increasing power?

Did I get that right? Still trying to grasp the leaning of AFR's and your plans.

Is it worth going to redline or when the turbo stops? Thought I read our turbo's stop spooling before we redline?

Good stuff man
 

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Discussion Starter #28
I thought about leaning out the whole fuel curve to somewhere in the range of 11.6-11.8. The tuner I spoke with said he didn't notice any quantifiable power gains. Now leaner afrs or higher timing somewhat have the same effect, however our MZR motors tend to prefer timing.

As a result, I'll be keeping the stock 11.4 fuel curve, at least toward red line, in order to add higher timing. In the lower rev range, I might lean it out a tad since timing doesn't play as much of a role there.

As for the spooling your referring to, a turbo doesn't stop. It's always spinning. Just the k04 has a harder time of maintaining boost toward red line (since it's a small turbo and can't flow enough)
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Idk if an adjust of .2 to afr would have any appreciable difference may .5 or 1 but surely .2 is just so small


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Yeah which is why I was thinking closer to 11.8. I'll do the base tune with 11.4. Then once that's dialled in, if I feel like it I can experiment with leaning out the mixture in some areas
 

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I thought about leaning out the whole fuel curve to somewhere in the range of 11.6-11.8. The tuner I spoke with said he didn't notice any quantifiable power gains. Now leaner afrs or higher timing somewhat have the same effect, however our MZR motors tend to prefer timing.

As a result, I'll be keeping the stock 11.4 fuel curve, at least toward red line, in order to add higher timing. In the lower rev range, I might lean it out a tad since timing doesn't play as much of a role there.

As for the spooling your referring to, a turbo doesn't stop. It's always spinning. Just the k04 has a harder time of maintaining boost toward red line (since it's a small turbo and can't flow enough)
Ahh ok I see. Did not know that about the turbo. Makes sense since ours is a small turbo. So it wasn't they stopped spooling they just can't maintain due to size. Yup first FI for me. Learning a lot. Especially thanks to folks like yourself.
 

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When you go to far on timing and then you get knock you step it back. So with using knock to know if you have gone to far how do you know you are still in a safe zone on the tune?

I mean say you pull back timing just enough to stop knock. Would you keep it on the edge or pull it back a little more?

If your riding that edge close to knock would there be a possibility of having problems when pushing the ride hard?
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Well you're pushing the car hard already when taking WOT logs. You increment in small enough stages where let's say, u added 0.5 degrees and now see constant knock in a certain range. Then you would back it up 0.5-1 degrees. Haven't looked much into timing yet. Toward the end of next month I'll be getting ready to tune so I should have more research done by then
 

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Generally u push to knock then remove a degree or more for safety ... that said its a rule of thumb vs right for every situation....



I have found that timing at a given rpm/load at particular speed may be fine however at the same rpm/load but at a higher speed may be terrible and knock like a sob ( different stresses on the engine ) ..... = a fair amount of testing is required on varying road types + you may have access to high load tables which generally are the timings applied when knock occurs so adjusting those to be the low load table values less a degree or to is not a bad idea at all



As far as the turbo goes... each turbo is benchmarked by the manufacturer and they provide graphs indicating the performance ... where its good and where it is bad .... its worth going up to Garrett and reading up \ looking at those graphs .... a little intimidating Torstar with
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Getting really lazy so not sure how often I'll be updating this thread anymore. I might make my own document with all the relevant information I need. If there's a way to attach it I will.

As for the rest, link in post 2 will answer most questions. The rest of the answers are in msf

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Thanks for all the info bud. Really good stuff. So how is the ride running? At this point are you happy with the tune so far?

When ya get a wild hair up yo ass throw us some more info every now an then with tweakn. :grin:

I am either going to start upgrading in a couple years or trade for a new speed, if it pops up. Really thinking about going long term on the ride and just improving what I got. Love my speed. Even with all the crap I have dealt with. Learned a lot and still am. Solid ride though but unrefined for my year.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Refinement? Lol. My friend has a GTI and every time he drives my car he gets all excited inside. It's just so much more raw and more of an experience when driving it. Refinement? Who needs that's when you have a racecar?

The tune has been doing well. I'm surprised my fuel curve is actually more dialled in than I first thought. Boost is off so I'll be dealing with that first. Other thing is, since I prefer to use 91 since I use the car for work at times, I need to extra gas mileage. As a result have to adjust my timing values and drop them a bit. If it doesn't go away then I probably need new plugs

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Good to hear bud on how the tune is looking.

No don't get me wrong. I do love that about our cars. No it is the engine improvements needed from the start and electronic issues.

We had defective motor mounts, VVT's, and smoking turbo's. All major stuff to deal with.

Electronic wise the bose bug was a bitch as well. Was a fight to get mazda to fix it I seem to remember.

2010+ models have the engine improvements from the internals to externals. Technology improvements are nice as well. I am just not a fan of all those curves.
 
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