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Discussion Starter #1
I was wondering if, after negotiating for a price lower than MSRP, the rebates still apply?

Would it be wrong for a dealership to say that the in order to achieve the "lower price negotiated", they put in the rebate?

For example: We finally come to a price of, say, 16,600 for a GX trim with a few things on it. Then I want to put in rebate, but he/she says that the only way to get the low price is to apply the rebates.

yeah, just thinking about this...
 

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I don't think negotiating on payments is a good idea, because you are not directly negotiating on the price of the car.

The rebates are between you and Mazda. The dealer is just the middle man. They don't care. Even if your negotiated price is below invoice, it doesn't exclude you from any available incentives.
 

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LeeLee said:
I don't think negotiating on payments is a good idea, because you are not directly negotiating on the price of the car.

The rebates are between you and Mazda. The dealer is just the middle man. They don't care. Even if your negotiated price is below invoice, it doesn't exclude you from any available incentives.
Its a waste of time to negotiate the sticker price because they will just try to make money off you in other places... i.e. trade in value, and maybe the APR on your financing. By telling them what you want your payments to be, you bypass all that. Let them work out the numbers while you kick back and wait. I've bought 4 new cars in 8 yrs and this method was the most painless.

There is no way you are going to negotiate a price below invoice unless you tell them about the rebates. Because then they will have you sign the rebate over to them. The dealer's margin might not be very high but the saying that "they'll sell to you even if they only make $1" is B.S. The Mazda 3 has only been on the market for 1 month... and it looks to be a good seller.
 

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Payments is a more complicated way of looking at your financial outlay. Looking only at payments casts confusion on the total cost of your car. For example, if I had over-paid $500 for my car, my montly payments would only go up by $9 (60 months at 3.9%). On the other hand, if you negotiate the best possible price for your car and trade, your monthly payments will be the lowest possible under any combination of payment terms. If you understand this point, you would never negotiate on the basis of payments. The fact that my dealer constantly tried to show me my payments goes to show just how dangerous negotiating on the basis of payments can be to those who don't understand it.

While negotiating on payments can become confusing and dangerous for the buyer, it isn't much different to the dealer than if you had bargained on the price of a car and trade. They are going to calculate the value and find out what those payments work out to. If they are making enough money, they'll sell it to you. If not, they won't. If it is hard for them to give you fair value for your trade, then talking about payments doesn't change that fact. You may not be talking about bottom-line prices with your salesperson, but that's how the floor manager is going to look at your offer.

If you know what your car is worth, then you know how much to ask for it. If you know how much the new car can be bought for, then you know how much to offer. There is no confusion. And if you don't want to hassle with bargaining on your trade, take it to CarMax like I did, where I promptly got full Kelly Blue Book trade-in for my '92 Accord. With a 7-day 300-mile quote, I took that offer to the Mazda dealer who couldn't beat it. Not forcing the Mazda dealer to give me a good trade-in value means they have more room to work with on the price of the new car. It's a win-win-win for all three parties.

Your APR is determined by your credit score and downpayment, nothing else. The dealer should be able to offer you the lowest possible APR no matter how the rest of the deal is structured. It's not even a bargaining point.

The rebates are from Mazda to the buyer. The dealer acts as a middle-agent. The dealer gives the rebate to the buyer and then gets reimbursed from Mazda. There is no "signing over" of anything. If you do not mention the rebates until you've arrived on a final sales price, you get the rebates as a further discount on the price, regardless of what your negotiated price is, even if it is below invoice.

BTW, I bought my Mazda3 for $118 below invoice, that's before $1000 in rebates (both owner loyalty and college grad). I also got 3.9% financing for 60 months. If you want to think about this in terms of payments, I started the week out with a '92 Accord EX, and ended the week with the Mazda3 in my signature and a payment of $296 for 60 months (estimated as if I had put the $1700 I got for my old car in as downpayment.)

Out of curiosity, what kind of deal did you manage to get?
 

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I agree you shouldn't negoiate through "i want to pay this much per month". Thats like walking in the door and saying I'll pay XXX for a car. You should always leave room to pay less than you expect.
 

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There is this little paper the salespeople try to use. It has 2 BIG lines on the page, making 4 little boxes. Generally, they have to get 2 things acceptable on that to make a deal.

For instance: first box is trade in, second is downpayment, third is monthly payment, forth is APR. So its like take 2, get forked on the other 2.

So lets say the salesperson knows what you want to pay monthly. And you wont budge on your trade in. They got you trapped. They say it can all happen if you put this much down and this is your APR.

The price is the main haggling point. Who cars about APR. You can always go to your bank or credit union in hopes for a lower rate.

You want $200 a month payments?!? No problem, your loan is now a 6 year term. Get my drift?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
vaBooM said:
There is this little paper the salespeople try to use. It has 2 BIG lines on the page, making 4 little boxes. Generally, they have to get 2 things acceptable on that to make a deal.

For instance: first box is trade in, second is downpayment, third is monthly payment, forth is APR. So its like take 2, get forked on the other 2.

So lets say the salesperson knows what you want to pay monthly. And you wont budge on your trade in. They got you trapped. They say it can all happen if you put this much down and this is your APR.

The price is the main haggling point. Who cars about APR. You can always go to your bank or credit union in hopes for a lower rate.

You want $200 a month payments?!? No problem, your loan is now a 6 year term. Get my drift?
Sooo... your main point is just to haggle the price you pay, and then worry about the monthly payments and financing stuff prior to the deal with your bank?

Or... should we just haggle for a price, and then say that "according to this price and the financing rate on the website, I would like to pay this much monthly"?
 

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No Im saying you dont have to go thru Mazda Credit. You want to haggle the price of the car. Like Leelee says, you cant haggle on the APR. Its based on your personal credit score.

Once the price is set (what you want to pay.. within the $300-500 above invoice limit) the monthly payments drop into place after they figure out whats your APR.

Just worry about the price of the car.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
vaBooM said:
No Im saying you dont have to go thru Mazda Credit. You want to haggle the price of the car. Like Leelee says, you cant haggle on the APR. Its based on your personal credit score.

Once the price is set (what you want to pay.. within the $300-500 above invoice limit) the monthly payments drop into place after they figure out whats your APR.

Just worry about the price of the car.
You'll have to excuse my ignorance. I've never bought a car before and am still new to a lot of this. Hope you all can bare with me :)

First, what's APR? Approval R______ Rating? I think that should clear things up for me.

So I should just go through my bank or credit union?
 

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Annual Percentage Rate.

You may get a better deal through your bank or credit union. Im not saying thats where you should get your loan from, but definately look around.

So happens the best rate I could get was through Mazda Credit. I dont have the best of credit, but was able to squeeze out a 4.9%.
 

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I think the sequence is something like this:

Check your credit report to see if anything is out of the ordinary and that all info is correct. Close any accounts that you are no longer using, especially those store credit cards. If you have multiple credit cards, close some of them so that you have a couple left. For example, I carry a MasterCard and an American Express, I don't need anything else.

If everything looks okay, then go to your credit union and/or local bank to see what kind of rates they are offering. For example, my credit union offers 2.9% APR financing on a new car loan with a term of 24-36 months, or 3.9% for up to 72 months. Make sure you apply and get approved for the loan and not just a "you'll get this if you qualify" over the phone. This will serve as your best alternative. You are not locked in to take this loan, just approved to take it if you want it.

Then search manufacturer incentives to see what kind of rates the manufacturer is offering. For me, Mazda was offering 3.9% for 60 months. Given that I wanted a 60 month term and Mazda was offering the same interest rate as my credit union, I would just finance the car through Mazda and avoid some paperwork.

Find out what your trade is worth on Kelly Blue Book. Go to CarMax and get a 7-day 300-mile quote. Or sell it yourself if you want.

Go to the dealer, negotiate on the price of a car to the lowest possible point. As you are closing the deal, ask them if they can bat the CarMax quote. If so, sell your trade to the dealer. If not, sell your car to CarMax.

Go to the financing office, ask them to run your credit and find the lowest possible APR (Annual Percentage Rate) in their network of lenders. Then just pick the lowest one given your loan terms and downpayment size.

Enjoy your new car. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I like the last one :)
 

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What dealership was it that tried to screw you over on your rebates? My dealer (Wolfe Mazda) tried the same thing. I called to enquire about my Grad Rebate which they said when I got my car would come in the mail. When I called to ask, they said it had been factored into the price of my car. I was pissed and asked for the manager I was dealing with... then his manager. It all came down to the sales person not knowing S#!T. I was told it would come in the mail after all (but still haven't received it and its been 1 month already)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I haven't bought it yet. Or even started shopping.
I'm just asking questions so that I'm more prepared for the dealership...

Let us know how things work out, D.
 

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What dealership was it that tried to screw you over on your rebates? My dealer (Wolfe Mazda) tried the same thing.
Sounds like another in the sad tales of Wolfe...
 

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Discussion Starter #17
nufsaid said:
What dealership was it that tried to screw you over on your rebates? My dealer (Wolfe Mazda) tried the same thing.
Sounds like another in the sad tales of Wolfe...
Where is Wolfe Mazda located?

I'm close to the WestCoast Mazda...
 

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Maybe it is different in Canada, but Mazda dealers in the US gives the "rebate" instantly to the buyer as a further discount on the price of the car.
 

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Maybe it is different in Canada, but Mazda dealers in the US gives the "rebate" instantly to the buyer as a further discount on the price of the car.
It's the same in Canada - just a stealership messing with money that belongs to D. Should have been an instant rebate, now he has to hassle with them for HIS money.
 
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