Mazda3 Forums banner
41 - 60 of 79 Posts
The Racing Beat springs is for the regular Mazda 3, it barely drops the regular 3 and is most likely longer than the MS3 stock springs. Plus, the RB is softer than the MS3 so there is no point of buying them.
 
Discussion starter · #42 ·
[quote author=Greybeard link=topic=135975.msg3103432#msg3103432 date=1241494407]
Hey guys, need some help. I just had installed a set of Koni FSDs with Racing Beat Springs front and rear. It really looks lousy. There is 1 inch fender/tire clearance in the rear but 3 INCHES in the front. That seems WAY off. Am I losing my mind. It was LOTs of bucks for the labor. Please give me your insight as it seems some have seen somewhat of a similar result. I went with RB springs because I didn't want to "drop" the car with the roads here in VA. Let me know. THanks. GB
[/quote]

If you're measuring wheel gap to the fender, easy answer: the front has more gap when the car is dead level! The rear fender well is almost a perfect semicircle, the front is more of a half oval. I used my eyeballs and Photoshop tools to figure that out.

Also, the car will settle. Maybe not completely but really close.

Look at the photo I posted earlier in the thread. Note how the line is parallel to the doors, which are flat on the bottom and straight on the frame. You can also see the different shapes of the wheel openings in this photo, and the much greater gap in the front.

Some aftermarket springs drop the front more which definitely looks better, but level is better for handling.
 
[quote author=justint5387 link=topic=135975.msg3103707#msg3103707 date=1241507652]
The Racing Beat springs is for the regular Mazda 3, it barely drops the regular 3 and is most likely longer than the MS3 stock springs. Plus, the RB is softer than the MS3 so there is no point of buying them.
[/quote]

Unless greybeard has changed cars and not updated his profile he has a 2004 regular 3.
 
[quote author=FreeFlyFreak link=topic=135975.msg3104641#msg3104641 date=1241551928]
[quote author=justint5387 link=topic=135975.msg3103707#msg3103707 date=1241507652]
The Racing Beat springs is for the regular Mazda 3, it barely drops the regular 3 and is most likely longer than the MS3 stock springs. Plus, the RB is softer than the MS3 so there is no point of buying them.
[/quote]

Unless greybeard has changed cars and not updated his profile he has a 2004 regular 3.
[/quote]

This is the Mazdaspeed section, so I didn't think he would have a regular 3
 
Discussion starter · #45 ·
It's his first post, he probably just found the forum and did a search on "FSD" to see what he could find out.
 
[quote author=kwsmithphoto link=topic=135975.msg3105850#msg3105850 date=1241583704]
It's his first post, he probably just found the forum and did a search on "FSD" to see what he could find out.
[/quote]

Yep didnt even notice that he signed up yesterday so Im guessing the car info is accurate:

Greybeard

* Bicycle Rider
*
* Location: Virginia
* Date Registered:Yesterday at 08:26:14 PM
* Total Posts: 1

Dunno what to tell you greybeard.
See if they settle!? Mine did settle a little after install.
If you can live with them you could switch out for eibachs which are a Koni approved combo or put the stockers back on.
But if you have to pay for labor.........
 
[quote author=kwsmithphoto link=topic=135975.msg3053869#msg3053869 date=1239520231]
Many moons ago I went through all this and still had a front end problem with my 86 Corolla AE86.
[/quote]

oh shit...you had a HACHI ROKU?!?! that's AWESOME!!! :lol:
 
Discussion starter · #48 ·
[quote author=Sacrilicious link=topic=135975.msg3106317#msg3106317 date=1241618705]
[quote author=kwsmithphoto link=topic=135975.msg3053869#msg3053869 date=1239520231]
Many moons ago I went through all this and still had a front end problem with my 86 Corolla AE86.
[/quote]

oh shit...you had a HACHI ROKU?!?! that's AWESOME!!! :lol:
[/quote]

HACHI ROKU, very funny. Bought it new and drove it 10 years! Put a full Tokico suspension on it. Great handling car, but it was not a very quick or reliable car, and it rattled so bad I couldn't drive without the stereo loud. Had to sell it, sadly. Wish I could have kept it and turned it into a track car, though.

I paid $10K for that car. 10 years of use and abuse and I still got $3000 for it. Some Asian kid bought it the same day it showed up in Auto Trader. Apparently there's still a kind of a cult following for those things, and they're popular with drifters.
 
[quote author=kwsmithphoto link=topic=135975.msg3106691#msg3106691 date=1241629141]HACHI ROKU, very funny. Bought it new and drove it 10 years! Put a full Tokico suspension on it. Great handling car, but it was not a very quick or reliable car, and it rattled so bad I couldn't drive without the stereo loud. Had to sell it, sadly. Wish I could have kept it and turned it into a track car, though.

I paid $10K for that car. 10 years of use and abuse and I still got $3000 for it. Some Asian kid bought it the same day it showed up in Auto Trader. Apparently there's still a kind of a cult following for those things, and they're popular with drifters.
[/quote]

haha...ya, that car has a cult following because it was keiichi tsuchiya's (drifting legend) car. i always get a kick out of seeing them on the road...:D
 
I've been interested in FSD since Koni started talking about it.

Would you take these to the track? Ideally I like to track about 6 times a year. I also hit the twisty backroads pretty hard from time to time. I like more spring usually, and even go so far to upgrade sways on some cars.

You guys pretentiously diss people that "upgrade" their spring rate or even - gasp - install coilovers. But I wonder if you use the car at the track? Some people are happy to trade comfort and practicality for a performance edge at the track. <raises hand> Even if the "upgrade" is mostly mental and is only relatively marginal - it's just something fun to do that does provide a result.

Last time I checked however, Koni does not recommend these for use at the track, and will steer you to the koni sports. I'm not a big fan of adding stiffer shocks to soft OEM springs...talk about a hokey crappy ride, been there done that t-shirt is in my rag bin. Matched spring/shocks or coilovers works better. Koni sports off the shelf are seldom even within a reasonable percentage to match each other, and the twist to adjust feature does not apply the same amount of adjustment across the board. So unless you have a shock dynometer in your garage it's a crap shoot (ironically the same is true for click to adjust coilovers - like the cheap ones I have :lol:) If they matched better, koni sports would be great. But if I get those I will be taking them to a shop with a dynometer and we will experiment with the adjustment until they are matched up.

To get it right costs money. Ideally I'd want a custom valve matched set of penskes or bilsteins to the spring rates chosen for the car. Set it and forget it. The nice thing about the FSD's in theory was they work well off the shelf. But I guess a track environment is too harsh?

Anyway...I want the idea of FSD's but in a package that works with stiffer springs (ok and why not a little bit lower for cg improvement) and the track.
 
Discussion starter · #51 ·
FreeFly's been doing great with them on the track, and I read somewhere that somebody won a national class title with them in 2007.

But if I were younger and did more tracking, I would take a serious look at Mazdaspeed coil over's or the AWR Voigtland/Bilstein combo. AWR had Bilstein do a custom tune, and I've heard some good things.

The FSD's are really meant for people who just want to upgrade their shocks to something more sporting without losing comfort. Which is not to say they don't perform, they do, and this car sticks to rough and rutted surfaces like nothing I've driven before, they really plant the tires. The car, not as much, but that's what stiffer springs are for. But I wouldn't want to run stiffer springs on these particular FSD's, they'd need a firmer tune, IMO. And then the road comfort would suck - it's plenty stiff for me as it is.

As the saying goes, springs control the car, dampers control the spring. Ideally you want them to match. My old Neon ACR used the same springs as the "sport" Neon, but they had Koni supply them with non-adjustable yellow Koni's that were dialed in DEEP. Killer on a track but harsh on the street, and skittery on rough patches. Over-damped, IOW.
 
fastdreams...
If you are serious about the track, get some mazdaspeed coilovers.
If you are serious about the street, and track for fun/learning experience the FSD's will more than do the job, and for a lot less money.
For me the street was first.
The track second.
The FSD's are great for what I wanted, comfortable daily driver with no loss of performance.
In fact I gained performance over the stock struts, I have no doubt the mazdaspeed/KW coilovers would be better on the track though.
 
[quote author=FreeFlyFreak link=topic=135975.msg3112078#msg3112078 date=1241828736]
fastdreams...
If you are serious about the track, get some mazdaspeed coilovers.
If you are serious about the street, and track for fun/learning experience the FSD's will more than do the job, and for a lot less money.
For me the street was first.
The track second.
The FSD's are great for what I wanted, comfortable daily driver with no loss of performance.
In fact I gained performance over the stock struts, I have no doubt the mazdaspeed/KW coilovers would be better on the track though.
[/quote]

Hi thanks for your input! Very logical choice. In retrospect I may have been happy with FSD + maybe a larger swaybar set to combat roll for track time.

But as it is I'm satisfied with the BC coilovers that I've been running for 10k miles and about 6 track days.

I was happy with the stock suspension for 4 track days prior to that, but the shocks really started to feel terrible. So I went with the cheapest option at the time - BC coilovers. They are surprisingly good so far. As I have been getting faster at the track I crave more spring, but instead am going with a hotchkis swaybar set. It is a compromise. The BC's have been good as far as I can tell, with the exception that they are terrible on sharp bumps - so clearly not enough travel before hitting the bumpstops. This only happens on large/sharp bumps. I've had coilovers in the past that didn't do this...you get what you pay for (H&R and Stasis). Anyway....I have been contemplating going back to stock spring + FSD + the swaybar set but it would be a lot of expense to fix a problem I don't really have. Wishful thinking I suppose.
At the track I'm satisfied (with the exception of wanting larger, grippier tires) and on the street I'm only mildly dissatisfied (because of the sharp bumps)
 
Discussion starter · #54 ·
The BC's have been good as far as I can tell, with the exception that they are terrible on sharp bumps - so clearly not enough travel before hitting the bumpstops. This only happens on large/sharp bumps. I've had coilovers in the past that didn't do this...you get what you pay for (H&R and Stasis). Anyway....I have been contemplating going back to stock spring + FSD + the swaybar set but it would be a lot of expense to fix a problem I don't really have. Wishful thinking I suppose.
At the track I'm satisfied (with the exception of wanting larger, grippier tires) and on the street I'm only mildly dissatisfied (because of the sharp bumps)
That's a lot of self contradiction! Do you have a real problem or don't you? You bought shitty dampers and are complaining about the ride quality. Then you said it wasn't a problem. Is it or isn't it? It would be for me.

As I've said 5000 times or so, the MS3 springs and FSD's are plenty firm enough for me. My first track day will be in a couple of weeks, and I only do 1-2 events a year. So that's what, .001% of my driving? The other 99.99% of my driving is either in urban traffic on bad roads, highway road trips on mixed surfaces, or canyon runs at 8/10ths on mixed surfaces. The FSD/OEM combo is up to the task. The body control is an order of magnitude better than stock, roll stiffness is good (at least on the stock tires), and I wouldn't want to go any firmer because I'm too mature to put up with rough and tumble suspension tuning all the time. I also like my tires to stay planted on rough surfaces, which the FSD's excel at. Poorly designed dampers just can't deal with that, which is important to me because the quality of road work in my part of the world leaves much to be desired.

On a road car suspension design, compliance and travel are your friends, it's what they're designed for. Super stiff setups feel more responsive, which a very good driver can exploit to eek out a little more speed in certain situations, or a bad driver can use to cover up sloppy driving. Search and study what Jackie Stewart has said about how to drive smoothly - his experience might be dated but the basics still apply. Properly driven, you can go very fast with a relatively soft setup.

You mentioned sway bars. Personally, I think Mazdaspeed got the bars and spring rates just about right for road use (can't comment on track use yet). Yes it will plow at low speeds if you let it...so don't let it! At medium and high speeds, I can drive the slip angle of the stock tires just fine in a neutral drift, or even induce some oversteer if I need to tighten my line and scrub a little speed because I mis-read the road. Fun and safe.

Here's another paradox to absorb: even a nose heavy, FWD car is often faster with an uprated front sway bar only. Why? Because that's where most of the mass is. When you increase roll stiffness only in the front, you increase traction in the rear suspension because the inside rear wheel isn't going light on you. If you go the common route, add a stiffer bar to the rear, all you've accomplished is a reduction of overall traction because the car is light back there. Tough concept to wrap your head around, I know, but there are sound physics behind it.

They key is learning how to drive it that way. It isn't as much fun as a car that turns in and rotates in slow speed corners like a Kart, and the car will feel very strange until you get the hang of it. It's how my last car was setup. It took me a while to get used to it, but once I did, I got a lot faster. It stuck like glue if I drove it right, plowed like a, uh, plow if I didn't, and was super duper stable.

One last thought, you mentioned something about hitting the bump stops with your BC setup. In the front at least, they use their own bump stops as all coilover's do. The rears I can't comment on because they aren't coilovers. But if you're bashing their bumps stops, you need either raise the car, dial in a bit more compression damping, or both. Which may have adverse affects because they are...well, as you put it...you get what you pay for. There's better stuff out there, as you noted yourself.
 
[quote author=kwsmithphoto link=topic=135975.msg3112602#msg3112602 date=1241857049]


That's a lot of self contradiction! Do you have a real problem or don't you? You bought shitty dampers and are complaining about the ride quality. Then you said it wasn't a problem. Is it or isn't it? It would be for me.

[/quote]

Man we've taken this nice thread way off track eh?

Contradiction? No sir. This is not a black and white subject - every suspension setup is a compromise.

I was not complaining of the dampers - in fact I am quite impressed with that aspect of the BC's. The dampers are well matched to the spring - and BC dyno tests each shock to match within 5% of each other. That is quite a nice feature that most coilover/shock companies do not offer. A lot of people that have not used the BC assume they are shitty, but my experience with them does not play this out. As a reference point - the OEM MS3 dampers are far inferior to the BC coilover dampers.

The complaint is travel in the front. There is not enough travel for roads with big bumps. This is the only compromise I've discovered with the BC's. I've had friends ride with me were quite impressed with the ride on the street under most conditions - they didn't know what kind of coilovers I had, and they have quite a lot of experience modifying suspensions. The travel issue may be improved by using shorter bumpstops as the ones provided are a bit large. I'm not sure of this. There may be no solution to it :(

There is no perfect suspension for every job, if I didn't have a complaint about my suspension then I'm not trying hard enough.

[quote author=kwsmithphoto]
As I've said 5000 times or so, the MS3 springs and FSD's are plenty firm enough for me. My first track day will be in a couple of weeks, and I only do 1-2 events a year. So that's what, .001% of my driving? The other 99.99% of my driving is either in urban traffic on bad roads, highway road trips on mixed surfaces, or canyon runs at 8/10ths on mixed surfaces. The FSD/OEM combo is up to the task. The body control is an order of magnitude better than stock, roll stiffness is good (at least on the stock tires), and I wouldn't want to go any firmer because I'm too mature to put up with rough and tumble suspension tuning all the time. I also like my tires to stay planted on rough surfaces, which the FSD's excel at. Poorly designed dampers just can't deal with that, which is important to me because the quality of road work in my part of the world leaves much to be desired.
[/quote]

It's good that works for you. I was relatively satisfied with the OEM suspension until the shocks went south. I used the car completely stock for a full 320 minutes of all-out track time (4 track days - 4 20 minute sessions per day). I got a very good feel for the car in OEM state and it is decent but ultimately lacking in control and stability. It's quite good for OEM, but once you spend some time at track pace it becomes clear. I simply drove around the stock suspension inadequacies, and still had a grin on my face. Quality shocks alone would have been a big help, FSD's may be perfect. In my experience however I also found that more spring rate is called for IF you want to put track time at a higher priority. Obviously we have different priorities.


[quote author=kwsmithphoto]
On a road car suspension design, compliance and travel are your friends, it's what they're designed for. Super stiff setups feel more responsive, which a very good driver can exploit to eek out a little more speed in certain situations, or a bad driver can use to cover up sloppy driving. Search and study what Jackie Stewart has said about how to drive smoothly - his experience might be dated but the basics still apply. Properly driven, you can go very fast with a relatively soft setup.
[/quote]

Stiff setups will exploit sloppy driving and punt the driver right off the track. I've seen this happen many times.

You can go very fast with ANY setup, properly driven. Relatively soft is relative to perspective. The BC's ARE a relatively soft setup.

I have watched Jackie Stewart, he is if course one of the masters. You can go a long way with increasing the spring/sway of the MS3 and still fall into the soft category. From my perspective.

As far as the BC's the spring rate is only slightly stiffer. The dampers work quite well. The rough and tumble as you put it, is not an issue if you get the dampers adjusted well. If you drive over 2x4's constantly, the BC's suck in that regard. There is one spot in my 17 mile commute where I hit a sharp bump that highlights the weakness in the BC's. It is only the front that is the issue. Thankfully 2x4's in the road are the exception where I live, and on the tracks I drive they do not exist.

Harris Hill Road track in San Marcos has some bumpy high speed turns...they are quite fun. With my BC setup on near full stiff (and a hotchkis rear bar) I can flat-foot it through these places and let the tires do their work. The bumps are not large enough to cause any issues with the front BC's. If the bumps were that big I think the track would get no business!

I'm the first to admit I have a lot to learn, but I have also gained a good amount of experience over the years that I have been modifying and tracking cars. I'm curious - will this be your first time on track in your life, or your first time with the MS3?

[quote author=kwsmithphoto]
You mentioned sway bars. Personally, I think Mazdaspeed got the bars and spring rates just about right for road use (can't comment on track use yet). Yes it will plow at low speeds if you let it...so don't let it! At medium and high speeds, I can drive the slip angle of the stock tires just fine in a neutral drift, or even induce some oversteer if I need to tighten my line and scrub a little speed because I mis-read the road. Fun and safe.
[/quote]

Mazdaspeed did fine with the car as a road car. You will find that as you push it on the track it is very easy to drive hard, and even make big mistakes it will absorb the mistakes and make you look like a hero in the novice and intermediate ranks of DE's.

For my use of the car I disagree that the spring rates and sway bars are perfect. The setup allows too much roll, which in turn expects too much from the tires and ultimately leaves you with less grip than you should have.

[quote author=kwsmithphoto]
Here's another paradox to absorb: even a nose heavy, FWD car is often faster with an uprated front sway bar only. Why? Because that's where most of the mass is. When you increase roll stiffness only in the front, you increase traction in the rear suspension because the inside rear wheel isn't going light on you. If you go the common route, add a stiffer bar to the rear, all you've accomplished is a reduction of overall traction because the car is light back there. Tough concept to wrap your head around, I know, but there are sound physics behind it.
[/quote]

There are two schools of thought for hardcore autocrossers (I've been down that road too) in FWD cars. Some folks put on a giant front bar, and others go with a giant rear bar. As has been proven by their competitive times on a national SCCA level, both configurations are effective. As is upgrading both.

The reason a big front bar works is because the outside tire doing all the work in a turn does not have as much weight rolled on to it.

Rear bars help rotation. It's not complicated. Doglegging around some very tight turns does not necessarily hurt the handling. In autocross you need rotation as well as grip.

In the case of the available options for the MS3 - the cobb sways and the hotchkis sways - neither are "giant" bars. They are a moderate upgrade in keeping with a street car that is occasionally tracked. They improve overall grip by reducing body roll. IMO they are the sweet spot for improving grip by reducing roll, without adding too much to make the car skip over bumps in a turn.

If I could go back I would like to try the OEM springs with FSD shocks and the hotchkis bars. I think the MS3 would be a very good street car and occasional track car with that setup. That setup would not be ideal for the track though I expect it would be quite good. But it would not be an upgrade from what I have now, IMO so I won't spend the cash for it.

[quote author=kwsmithphoto]
They key is learning how to drive it that way. It isn't as much fun as a car that turns in and rotates in slow speed corners like a Kart, and the car will feel very strange until you get the hang of it. It's how my last car was setup. It took me a while to get used to it, but once I did, I got a lot faster. It stuck like glue if I drove it right, plowed like a, uh, plow if I didn't, and was super duper stable.
[/quote]
Definitely, you have to drive around the idiosyncrasies of any car. Understeer is more stable, and safer. That is why most manufacturers tune the suspension that way - for the general safety of the customers. It is not necessarily the fastest setup for the car however.

Most FWD cars behave much the same way, and have to be driven in a similar way to get the most out of them. You can tweak the setup a bit but you can't change the weight distribution much, and you can't change the fact that we're putting the power through the same tires that are expected to handle the majority of the turning duties, and the braking duties. The front tires on my car get absolutely tortured at the track. The back tires get an easy ride by comparison.

I do prefer a mostly neutral with a tiny hint of understeer setup for that reason - it is safer. With the BC's and the hotchkis, that is exactly what I have - but with higher levels of grip because of less body roll.

[quote author=kwsmithphoto]
One last thought, you mentioned something about hitting the bump stops with your BC setup. In the front at least, they use their own bump stops as all coilover's do. The rears I can't comment on because they aren't coilovers. But if you're bashing their bumps stops, you need either raise the car, dial in a bit more compression damping, or both. Which may have adverse affects because they are...well, as you put it...you get what you pay for. There's better stuff out there, as you noted yourself.
[/quote]

My car is not slammed - that is not ideal for handling geometry. My compression settings for the street are quite soft. Even so, the design of the BC setup is such that if you correctly set the pretension, the travel will be the same no matter what height you have them set to. It's a good design - except not enough travel. No question about it this is the ugly truth of the BC's. So far in every other light they are very good for the money.
The rears are a non issue, they work well.

Anyway - I really did not intend to become a BC apologist. The bottom line is that they are good - not great. They are an improvement to the stock suspension with the one exception that I have mentioned.

I would advise those that bash them but have not tried them - don't speak of things you do not know of.

There are plenty of sports cars, EVO's, STI's, Z's, vette's,S2k's, etc. that can attest to the fact my car works quite well. Then again it's all about the nut behind the wheel ;) There are plenty of slower cars with better drivers that have showed me their tails. I have a lot to learn about driving yet, but then most of us do.

The way my suspension is now, what I need is more negative camber in the front. Currently there is no adjustment for that, and it's -0.9 on the left, and -1.3 on the right. That is next up on my list to even this out and get -2.0 on both sides, a conservative setting for a FWD car, a good compromise for aggressive street and improved track. Time for camber plates.

This thread is supposed to be about FSD's and I am sorry for dragging it into a BC vs. the world thread :lol:

Let's hear more about your FSD experiences as I am interested to know for future reference.
 
Discussion starter · #56 ·
Man we've taken this nice thread way off track eh?
It's ok, I started it - both the thread and the drift.

Well of all the people who are OK with the BC units, you seem to know the most by far, so I'll stop baggin' on them! It's just that I've heard so many mixed reports about them - on Mazda's and also other cars. I would be a leery of cutting the bump stops though, might want to check with them first. I'm sure you don't want to bottom out the damper shaft internally...

I think it's safe to say that the Mazdaspeed parts would be an upgrade in any case. If you keep them at their minimum drop (7mm compared to MS3 springs) you won't need the camber links, which lowers the price if you can find a vendor who'll seperate them (I've seen a few). I really haven't heard anything bad about them, except for having to widen the rear mount. But performance wise they give you lots of options. They do double the spring rate though, which is why I didn't get them for myself. But I think at least the fronts have a dual circuit damper though, which should help the ride vs. handling compromise you don't like in the BC's. And by most accounts they're crafted much better.

You didn't realize the stock dampers were junque until you hit the track? I figured that out on the test drive! :shock: Then driving the car home from the dealer was also revealing after driving my old (and much better tuned) car on the same freeway for years. But I didn't realize just how bad they were until I hit the canyons after break-in, when the car kept trying to freakin' kill me.

I'm surprised you describe them as forgiving; FreeFly and I found them rather scary. Pretty much anything would be an improvement over the OEM dampers. They are "What were they smoking?" bad, and I'm surprised most reviews didn't catch that. Batch variance? Who knows, they just sucked on my 2009. The FSD technology was intriguing so I gave it a try. Hey, if it's good enough for McLaren's F1 cars, it's good enough for me! (yes I know my dampers have virtually nothing in common, I just like McLaren)

Stiff setups will exploit sloppy driving and punt the driver right off the track. I've seen this happen many times.
Hmmm. I think maybe it's more of a case of over confidence combined with incompetence that causes that to happen. :) An oversteery setup can catch anyone off guard (ever driven a 1976 Turbo Carrera?) but a good yet stiff setup can make up for sloppy driving by controlling the body and weight transfers better. Softer cars need a little more finesse in my experience, all else being equal.

I'm the first to admit I have a lot to learn, but I have also gained a good amount of experience over the years that I have been modifying and tracking cars. I'm curious - will this be your first time on track in your life, or your first time with the MS3?
No, just not in this car yet. Between my karting time, track time in road cars, and the street racing scene I was into as a stupid kid, I've got lots of 10/10ths driving under my belt. We used to block "civilian" traffic at each end of a section on Mulholland Drive right here in town, then race side by side on a narrow 2-lane. Whoever made it to the finish line first without going over the side won. Crazy.

I've only done one cone race and hated it though.

Also, I have yet to leave a suspension alone, not even my Neon ACR, which came with Koni's. My first new car was a 1984 Celica. Since mine was on the second boat from Japan, I called the company that built the Toyota Pro Celebrity race cars for the Long Beach Grand Prix and asked them if they needed a test mule. They were thrilled - not even Toyota had supplied them with a car yet and they were in desperate need, so I got a set of free springs and matched Bilsteins at wholesale (geez, was that really 25 years ago?).

Definitely, you have to drive around the idiosyncrasies of any car. Understeer is more stable, and safer. That is why most manufacturers tune the suspension that way - for the general safety of the customers. It is not necessarily the fastest setup for the car however.
True, but it's what the car just naturally wants to do, and the only proper way to fix that is to move the engine! Everyone has their own driving style, but in a front driver, I like a slight understeer bias that I can modulate. And I have that now, at least with the stock tires. That could change though, depending on what skids I run next.

I have a lot to learn about driving yet, but then most of us do.
As do I, which is why I'm taking the HPDE course at Mazfest in a couple of weeks. I need to be more consistent, which has gotten even more difficult with age. I'm hoping their instructors can help me with that. Sometimes I just nail a lap then totally screw up the next one. I should be getting better but I'm getting worse. Need someone riding along to yell at me when I do something wrong. :p

If I could go back I would like to try the OEM springs with FSD shocks and the hotchkis bars. I think the MS3 would be a very good street car and occasional track car with that setup. That setup would not be ideal for the track though I expect it would be quite good.
Or not. IMHO, as much as I like the FSD's on the MS3, they were tuned for the regular 3 springs, so the rebound damping is just enough to control the car properly. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of damping with them, waaaaaaay more than stock, but I'm not sure I'd want to add more sway bar to their workload. Maybe a slightly bigger rear bar something with adjustable end links. Maybe. Tires will tell, they're next (followed by an intake). At only 4300 miles I've already driven them half to death, and the upcoming track day is likely to kill them for good!
 
Glad to see you are experienced and knowledgeable. Now I'm for sure more interested in following your progress / choices.

It may be that I'm not very perceptive to the feel of the dampers. The feel of my stock dampers kind of snuck up on me when I realized they were going south. I drive like a gorilla, eventually I notice I'm just driving around an issue with the car rather than paying attention to the details analytically. Somehow I still get around the track fairly quickly, but it's not for smooth driving.

I'm sure the ms/kw coilovers are the best bet out there for street/track setup right now, unless you go cu$tom with penskes/ohlins/etc.
 
I just had my stockers replaced with Koni FSDs. I also had them remove my Cobb springs and put the OEM back in (paranoia because Koni says FSDs should only be used with stock springs). What a difference. I still have the Cobb sways and I notice little to no difference in cornering, but the car is a lot easier to live with now over bumps. I haven't driven much on the Koni's yet, but I'm already satisfied.

I also had my brakes done at the same time. One Mazda dealer wanted $740 for a front end job with new rotors and pads, another quoted me $640, and I had it done at Fast Auto in Arcadia for less than half of what the dealerships quoted. Plus Fast Auto resurfaced the rotors instead of replacing them - the dealer told me they couldn't be saved and wanted a deposit on ordering the parts. If you're in SoCal and not comfortable doing work like this yourself, I recommend Fast. It took a couple hours longer than they said it would, but that seems to be the case wherever you go.
 
Discussion starter · #59 ·
What a difference. I still have the Cobb sways and I notice little to no difference in cornering, but the car is a lot easier to live with now over bumps. I haven't driven much on the Koni's yet, but I'm already satisfied.
Cool, keep us posted! Bumps are what they do best, lots of traction and stability.

FWIW, I had a Tri-Point rear sway bar installed the other day and I like it a lot! It made the car a lot quicker and more fun to drive. I thought it was just fine without a stiffer rear bar but...I was wrong.
 
I just took the car up Chantry Flats (top of Santa Anita off the 210), which is about six miles of curves to the top and back. It felt much more planted. I'll chalk it up to the FSDs instead of the OEM springs because it never handled this well new.
 
41 - 60 of 79 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top