Mazda3 Forums banner

Mazdaspeed3 vs. Mazda3 Transimssion Gear Ratio Analysis

25K views 46 replies 16 participants last post by  Maizee3T 
#1 ·
Hey guys,

I was feeling nerdy today. So, I did some calculations and created some graphs to compare the stock Mazda 3 5-speed manual transmission versus the Mazdaspeed3 6-speed transmission when used in a regular Mazda 3. The data might be useful for those interested in swapping the MS3 transmission to their Mazda3's.

Variables:
- Overall tire diameter based on stock 2004-2009 Mazda 3 17" wheel/tire package (205/50/17)
- 5-speed transmission ratios taken from 2006 Mazda 3 specifications
- 6-speed transmission ratios taken from 2007 Mazdaspeed3 specifications
- Final drive ratio for 6-speed gears 1 through 4 (3.941:1) used for gears 1 through 6, with the equivalent ratios for gears 5 and 6 calculated (Remember, gears 5 and 6 have a final drive of 3.350:1)
- Maximum engine speed of 6800 RPM

Now for the resultant data (pretty self explanatory):








My conclusion: This upgrade is worth every penny and all the headaches!

As always, thoughts and comments are welcome.
 
See less See more
3
#27 ·
:shock: Damn so w/o my speed limiter I can take my 3 up to 162-170mph?
 
#28 ·
[quote author=ryukensfj link=topic=159743.msg3395906#msg3395906 date=1257016271]
:shock: Damn so w/o my speed limiter I can take my 3 up to 162-170mph?
[/quote]

nope. Just because a car has the gearing to do it, does not mean it can. Most cars in this power range are drag/power limited
 
#29 ·
[quote author=azazel1024 link=topic=159743.msg3395666#msg3395666 date=1256998279]
Just a hair shorter isn't going to make much difference. I am talking like 3-5% shorter 1st gear, but about 10-12% shorter 2nd gear. Means the 1-2 shift at 7,200rpms would likely drop you around 4,300rpms instead of about 4,000 that it is now.
-Matt
[/quote]

Yeah, I'm not sure why I used 6800. I must have been smoking crack lol. I'll also revise max engine rpm when I input the 2010 gearbox data. Is the rev limiter at 7000 or 7200 rpm? I could swear my car's limiter is 7000...
 
#30 ·
[quote author=Eternal link=topic=159743.msg3396100#msg3396100 date=1257028339]
[quote author=ryukensfj link=topic=159743.msg3395906#msg3395906 date=1257016271]
:shock: Damn so w/o my speed limiter I can take my 3 up to 162-170mph?
[/quote]

nope. Just because a car has the gearing to do it, does not mean it can. Most cars in this power range are drag/power limited
[/quote]

You sure I'm drag/power limited and won't be able to go up to what my gearing says I can?
 
#32 ·
[quote author=Eternal link=topic=159743.msg3396242#msg3396242 date=1257036177]
I posted it without looking at your mods. You should be able too!! My comment was toward a stock mazda 3.
[/quote]

lol thanks. good to know how fast I can actually go, when someone figures out how to disable the speed limiter on 07+ models.
 
#33 ·
You probably can get up that fast or close to it. The Mazdaspeed 3 can deffinitely hit its 155mph limiter. I think 160mph if you are putting 240+ to the ground is well within the realm of possible.

Don't know about the newer Mazda 3, but the older 2.0 and 2.3 are deffinitely 7,200rpms.

120km/hr also known in civilized parts of the world as 75mph :lol: is about 3,300-3,400...close sure, but not exactly 1,000rpm difference. At any rate, the sunfire needs it cause it is a fricken fuel hog engine otherwise.

Imagine what our milage would be with a 5th gear 20% longer (say 2,800rpms at 75mph). I'd bet highway milage would go up at least 2mpg, maybe 3mpg. Of course the car would be a heck of a less responsive in 5th gear...deffinitely wouldn't be shifting to 5th gear at 35mph, more like 40 (so cruising around town would maybe use a bit more because of staying in 4th longer).
-Matt
 
#34 ·
Ok,

I've finally updated the analysis. I've included the 2010 manual gearboxes, assuming they can be retrofited to the 2004-2009 Mazda 3. Maximum engine RPM is set at 7000 rpm (this is the rev limiter on my 2006 2.3).

For outright performance, I'd still go with the 1st gen Mazdaspeed3 6spd if I had the choice. It has the most aggressive ratios while still having a pretty decent 6th gear for highway cruising.





 
#36 ·
i think second is so tall in the normal 3 because it's an econo-box... guess they wanted to get goo city fuel economy by letting people keep it in second when in the city, speeds like 25-30mph
 
#39 ·
[quote author=biped link=topic=159743.msg3400268#msg3400268 date=1257299583]
second doesn't seem so tall if you flat shift

matt i was off by 100 rpm sue me
[/quote]

So I shall! Your statements have been entered and shall be used against you in a court of eWang comparison!

:)
-Matt
 
#40 ·
[quote author=Verto link=topic=159743.msg3400135#msg3400135 date=1257294257]
i think second is so tall in the normal 3 because it's an econo-box... guess they wanted to get goo city fuel economy by letting people keep it in second when in the city, speeds like 25-30mph
[/quote]

Keeping in 2nd at those speeds would greatly reduce fuel economy. I normally shift into 2nd around 10mph, 3rd 18-20mph, 4th 25-30mph and 4th 35mph. That is supposing I am cruising/accelerating slowly. You are probably right that it was in part for fuel economy and reduced shifting in the city more then it was about performance. I do really like the look of those 2010 6spd gears (non MS).
-Matt
 
#41 ·
[quote author=ryukensfj link=topic=159743.msg3396245#msg3396245 date=1257036314]
[quote author=Eternal link=topic=159743.msg3396242#msg3396242 date=1257036177]
I posted it without looking at your mods. You should be able too!! My comment was toward a stock mazda 3.
[/quote]

lol thanks. good to know how fast I can actually go, when someone figures out how to disable the speed limiter on 07+ models.
[/quote]

Guess you did not get the memo on the speed limiters? They are very easily removed or raised on all of the 3's and 6's (04-05,06-09, 2010). No Problem! :split:............dyno













0
 
#42 ·
[quote author=dynotronics1 link=topic=159743.msg3401263#msg3401263 date=1257358262]
[quote author=ryukensfj link=topic=159743.msg3396245#msg3396245 date=1257036314]
[quote author=Eternal link=topic=159743.msg3396242#msg3396242 date=1257036177]
I posted it without looking at your mods. You should be able too!! My comment was toward a stock mazda 3.
[/quote]

lol thanks. good to know how fast I can actually go, when someone figures out how to disable the speed limiter on 07+ models.
[/quote]

Guess you did not get the memo on the speed limiters? They are very easily removed or raised on all of the 3's and 6's (04-05,06-09, 2010). No Problem! :split:............dyno













0
[/quote]

Show me proof where the speed limiter was removed on 07+ models...
 
#43 ·
Tell ya what, you send me your pcm, and I'll remove it, that prove it to ya?

Why is it you guys think this is sooooo F*^king hard? The pcm in the 06-09 has EXACTLY the same map architecture as the early models. Same drivers, same input structure, same modifiers. How did this fable get started? What makes everyone think that Mazda would just up and change the way they limit speed on the 3 between the years?

We have done quite a few 23 MZRs in the past year, and a number of them have been 06-09 cars. We have not run into any issues raising the limiters on any of them. Maybe I'm just an idiot, but if the car shows 140mph in 5th on the dyno, with the speedo on the limiter, I tend to think we have done our job!

Look, I hate to sound like an asshole, but I am soooooo tired of this myth! Its almost as bad as the one about the IMMO system in the 3!

Sorry, long day at the shop. Excuse me for raging! :boom:...........dyno
 
#44 ·
[quote author=dynotronics1 link=topic=159743.msg3402489#msg3402489 date=1257389141]
Tell ya what, you send me your pcm, and I'll remove it, that prove it to ya?

Why is it you guys think this is sooooo F*^king hard? The pcm in the 06-09 has EXACTLY the same map architecture as the early models. Same drivers, same input structure, same modifiers. How did this fable get started? What makes everyone think that Mazda would just up and change the way they limit speed on the 3 between the years?

We have done quite a few 23 MZRs in the past year, and a number of them have been 06-09 cars. We have not run into any issues raising the limiters on any of them. Maybe I'm just an idiot, but if the car shows 140mph in 5th on the dyno, with the speedo on the limiter, I tend to think we have done our job!

Look, I hate to sound like an asshole, but I am soooooo tired of this myth! Its almost as bad as the one about the IMMO system in the 3!

Sorry, long day at the shop. Excuse me for raging! :boom:...........dyno
[/quote]

No it was because before a standalone fuel ecu can remove the speed limiter on 04-06 because the speed limiter was only a fuel cut. 07+ model is a fuel cut and closing of the throttle body. Anyways if I send my pcm to you, you will remove my speed limiter for me for freeee.

btw do you have a video of a dyno run of 140mph on the 07+ mazda3?

More important question, will this work for my car? I have the XFC and can do datalogging.
 
#45 ·
I can honestly say that, no, I do not have a video of the m3 at speed on the dyno. But then again, I don't have video of any of the cars we tune at speed on the dyno! I never had anyone question me about it before, so I never saw the need.

The reason the aftermarket ecus could do that is simple, but we spent mega thousands of dollars and tons of time to figure this out. And as you might guess, I'm sort of closed mouth about the maping, stock or modified. We have control over ALL MAPS in the mazda pcm.

Tell ya what, I will flash your pcm and if the cut is gone you pay the full boat for the remap, if not, you don't pay anything, and I'll cover the shipping. Hows that for fair? Then you can post the video on here if you want...........dyno
 
#46 ·
[quote author=dynotronics1 link=topic=159743.msg3402549#msg3402549 date=1257390962]
I can honestly say that, no, I do not have a video of the m3 at speed on the dyno. But then again, I don't have video of any of the cars we tune at speed on the dyno! I never had anyone question me about it before, so I never saw the need.

The reason the aftermarket ecus could do that is simple, but we spent mega thousands of dollars and tons of time to figure this out. And as you might guess, I'm sort of closed mouth about the maping, stock or modified. We have control over ALL MAPS in the mazda pcm.

Tell ya what, I will flash your pcm and if the cut is gone you pay the full boat for the remap, if not, you don't pay anything, and I'll cover the shipping. Hows that for fair? Then you can post the video on here if you want...........dyno
[/quote]

let's talk in the reflash thread...
 
#47 ·
Hey guys,

I was feeling nerdy today. So, I did some calculations and created some graphs to compare the stock Mazda 3 5-speed manual transmission versus the Mazdaspeed3 6-speed transmission when used in a regular Mazda 3. The data might be useful for those interested in swapping the MS3 transmission to their Mazda3's.

Variables:
  • Overall tire diameter based on stock 2004-2009 Mazda 3 17" wheel/tire package (205/50/17)
  • 5-speed transmission ratios taken from 2006 Mazda 3 specifications
  • 6-speed transmission ratios taken from 2007 Mazdaspeed3 specifications
  • Final drive ratio for 6-speed gears 1 through 4 (3.941:1) used for gears 1 through 6, with the equivalent ratios for gears 5 and 6 calculated (Remember, gears 5 and 6 have a final drive of 3.350:1)
  • Maximum engine speed of 6800 RPM

Now for the resultant data (pretty self explanatory):








My conclusion: This upgrade is worth every penny and all the headaches!

As always, thoughts and comments are welcome.
Will the 2012 mazdaspeed3 Manual transmission fit on a 2.5l 5-speed transmission I want a 6-speed
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top