Mazda3 Forums banner

Mazdaspeed MS3 coilovers, or KW v3 coils, what are your prefered settings?

8K views 25 replies 6 participants last post by  Lex2007 
#1 ·
For those that are using the Mazdaspeed MS3 coilovers, or KW v3 coils, what are your preferred settings?

1) Front Compression
2) Front Rebound
3) Rear Compression
4) Rear Rebound.

5) Height setting.

6) Why are these your preferred settings, and what else have you tried.

This is only for Mazdaspeed or KW coils.
I don't care about settings for BC's, H&R's, or any other brands, as they will not be comparable.... Thanks.



I would like to thank Ken and Josh of Protege Garage for the great deal I got.
 
#3 ·
Re: For those that are using the Mazdaspeed MS3 coilovers, or KW v3 coils, what are

Mazdaspeed3 coils have a different range of height adjust-ability. KW offers a greater range and drops lower. Not really and apples to apples comparison with these two sets of coilovers.
 
#4 ·
Re: For those that are using the Mazdaspeed MS3 coilovers, or KW v3 coils, what

I set everything to the MS recommended settings, did a few laps, then started playing.. ended up 3-4 clicks higher rear compression (1 shy of full stiff, and sometimes I will go full stiff) and 1 click lower front compression, plus a few clicks higher front rebound and haven't messed with rear rebound. I turn the rear compression way back down for daily driving, about 5 clicks from full stiff.
 
#5 ·
Re: For those that are using the Mazdaspeed MS3 coilovers, or KW v3 coils, what

[quote author=budgy link=topic=172276.msg3650467#msg3650467 date=1273275804]
well...which ones are you using? the spring rates are higher on the MS version so the settings are likely higher compression on them.
[/quote]

Incorrect. The springs are the same. There is a lot of misinformation on the net.
EDIT: SINCE PROVEN WRONG.

[quote author=danielj link=topic=172276.msg3650489#msg3650489 date=1273277659]
Mazdaspeed3 coils have a different range of height adjust-ability. KW offers a greater range and drops lower. Not really and apples to apples comparison with these two sets of coilovers.
[/quote]

I will likely be running them at max height, that is why I ordered MS over KW, because their minimum drop keeps the car closer to stock height.

[quote author=cali_axela link=topic=172276.msg3650512#msg3650512 date=1273280487]
I set everything to the MS recommended settings, did a few laps, then started playing.. ended up 3-4 clicks higher rear compression (1 shy of full stiff, and sometimes I will go full stiff) and 1 click lower front compression, plus a few clicks higher front rebound and haven't messed with rear rebound. I turn the rear compression way back down for daily driving, about 5 clicks from full stiff.
[/quote]

Track or Autox?

What have you found is your preferred street setting?
 
#6 ·
Re: For those that are using the Mazdaspeed MS3 coilovers, or KW v3 coils, what are

[quote author=FreeFlyFreak link=topic=172276.msg3650578#msg3650578 date=1273283975]
[quote author=budgy link=topic=172276.msg3650467#msg3650467 date=1273275804]
well...which ones are you using? the spring rates are higher on the MS version so the settings are likely higher compression on them.
[/quote]

Incorrect. The springs are the same. There is a lot of misinformation on the net.

[quote author=danielj link=topic=172276.msg3650489#msg3650489 date=1273277659]
Mazdaspeed3 coils have a different range of height adjust-ability. KW offers a greater range and drops lower. Not really and apples to apples comparison with these two sets of coilovers.
[/quote]

I will likely be running them at max height, that is why I ordered MS over KW, because their minimum drop keeps the car closer to stock height.

[quote author=cali_axela link=topic=172276.msg3650512#msg3650512 date=1273280487]
I set everything to the MS recommended settings, did a few laps, then started playing.. ended up 3-4 clicks higher rear compression (1 shy of full stiff, and sometimes I will go full stiff) and 1 click lower front compression, plus a few clicks higher front rebound and haven't messed with rear rebound. I turn the rear compression way back down for daily driving, about 5 clicks from full stiff.
[/quote]

Track or Autox?

What have you found is your preferred street setting?
[/quote]

If they are indeed the same springs this would be valuable information to some members....do you have any way to confirm this?
 
#7 ·
Re: For those that are using the Mazdaspeed MS3 coilovers, or KW v3 coils, what are

If they are indeed the same springs this would be valuable information to some members....do you have any way to confirm this?
I just tried to find where I found that info and I cannot.
It was about 2 years ago when I was doing that research, but I cant find it now.

If you have something official that shows they are different........

Really I think this all stems from the pic in the mazdaspeed accessories catalog.
Which shows a pic of the MS coilovers with linear rear springs, and things snow balled from there. The actual rear MS springs are not linear.
But any one that has actually seen them in person side by side will tell you they look exactly the same except for color, and the fact that the KW's and MS3 coils have a different range of drop.

Could they be different internally..... sure, but I doubt it.

If I find that reference again I will let you know.

EDIT: SINCE PROVEN WRONG.
 
#9 ·
Re: For those that are using the Mazdaspeed MS3 coilovers, or KW v3 coils, what are

[quote author=danielj link=topic=172276.msg3650667#msg3650667 date=1273290286]
But you can't see spring rates.
[/quote]

Sure you can, unless the difference is so small it doesn't matter.
count the number of coils, static/unloaded length, and coil wire diameter....
If you cant tell by looking at them and/or measuring them, they are so close to the same that there will be no discernible difference on the car/driving.

They "look" identical except color and drop range/restriction.
Could there be a huge difference internally with valving?..... sure, but why would there be?
Same body, same spring, same manufacturer......... = requires same damping setup.
 
#10 ·
Re: For those that are using the Mazdaspeed MS3 coilovers, or KW v3 coils, what are

i dunno, for some reason I just remember reading different spring rates....I think it would be hard to visually tell....the gauge of the wire could be off by a quarter point at those thicknesses and it would mean a substantial difference in spring rate. I don't think the Mazdaspeed rear springs were really advertised as being linear, its the front springs which are supposed to be linear although they have a helper spring.

anyway, I do have the Mazdaspeeds basically just set up on the recommended settings...its a little too much stiff on the bound/rebound up front but not enough that I feel like I should adjust it.
 
#12 ·
Re: For those that are using the Mazdaspeed MS3 coilovers, or KW v3 coils, what are

i actually never really used that forum all too much. im more or less done with the mod thing, I just went there to read the odd FAQ. i think i signed up but my account has probably been erased because of inactivity
 
#13 ·
Re: For those that are using the Mazdaspeed MS3 coilovers, or KW v3 coils, what are

I stand corrected!

Having the MS coils in my hands, and looking at pics of the MS3 KW v2 coils on line, there is a definite difference in the front springs at least.

Just compare the coil count of the helper spring and the main spring.
There is no way these are "the same"



 
#14 ·
Re: For those that are using the Mazdaspeed MS3 coilovers, or KW v3 coils, what are

Do you know which version of KW V3 coilover you have for the Mazdaspeed3? KW had a bad batch out where the helper spring would bind or fully compress causing it to bottom out. A few local guys have had to send theirs back to KW for replacement.

Ive not seen their before and after's so I don't know if the replaced parts resemble the Mazdaspeed3 Accessory coilover or the KW V3 coilover pictured above.
 
#15 ·
Re: For those that are using the Mazdaspeed MS3 coilovers, or KW v3 coils, what are

on the main spring I count 7 turns of wire on the speeds, and 6 turns of wire on the KW's

helper spring is 4 turns of wire on the speeds, 6 turns on the KW's I think....

so even if we assume the height and gauge of wire on the main coil is the same the MS would have a slightly stiffer spring rate.
 
#16 ·
Re: For those that are using the Mazdaspeed MS3 coilovers, or KW v3 coils, what are

[quote author=danielj link=topic=172276.msg3655075#msg3655075 date=1273620339]
Do you know which version of KW V3 coilover you have for the Mazdaspeed3? KW had a bad batch out where the helper spring would bind or fully compress causing it to bottom out. A few local guys have had to send theirs back to KW for replacement.
[/quote]

Mine are the MS coils, the KW's are some pics I found on the net, they are MS3 KW v2's......


[quote author=budgy link=topic=172276.msg3655082#msg3655082 date=1273620581]
on the main spring I count 7 turns of wire on the speeds, and 6 turns of wire on the KW's

helper spring is 4 turns of wire on the speeds, 6 turns on the KW's I think....

so even if we assume the height and gauge of wire on the main coil is the same the MS would have a slightly stiffer spring rate.
[/quote]

Are you sure that is not the other way around?
It is my understanding more coils = lower spring rate, if everything else remains the same.
The spring calculator I used showed the Main Spring for the MS coils to be softer, using the same assumption as you:

http://www.pontiacracing.net/js_coil_spring_rate.htm

Using the calc there, and the "ballpark" (taken with a tape) measurements of my spring gave me KW coils 400 lbs/in (what KW says they are), MS coils 335 lbs/in

The numbers I used were Free length 200mm (not needed for the calc), coil width 84mm, wire diameter 11mm
KW free coils 5.2
MS free coils 6.2

How did I arrive at number of coils.
Well KW publishes a spring rate of 400 lbs/in for the front, so I put in a number that created that from the other measurements I had. I then added 1 coil to that, for the MS coils.
I know my" taken with a tape, not a caliper", measurements will be a little off, and so I was surprised when the number of coils was "in the ball park"



modulus of spring steel X wire diameter
spring rate = -----------------------------------------------------
8 X number of active coils X mean coil diameter

So if everything else remains constant, an increase in coils DECREASES the spring rate.
Counter-intuitive for me anyway.
 
#18 ·
Re: For those that are using the Mazdaspeed MS3 coilovers, or KW v3 coils, what are

[quote author=danielj link=topic=172276.msg3655409#msg3655409 date=1273635913]
Looking at the image properties, I see the pick you found/posted is that of a my friend. This was taken before KW replaced the helper spring.
[/quote]

Thanks for that.
So the helper spring was changed..... but how about the main spring, the KW's definitely have approx 1 less coil than the MS's
 
#19 ·
guess I had it backwards eh. I just thought for some reason more coils would increase the resistance as you are essentially adding more steel (takes more energy to bend more steel was my thought). Now I realize they are actually dividing the tension amongst themselves. I think my understanding of 'what' a spring rate is was actually flawed from the get go.....i thought for some reason that a stronger coil or more durable coil (more steel) would mean the spring rate would be higher even though spring rates are really measured on compression...they do not always correlate. This also explains to me why the ride quality of bigger coils (larger outer diameter) tends to ride better because it reduces spring rates rather than increasing. Learned a little bit tonight
 
#20 ·
[quote author=FreeFlyFreak link=topic=172276.msg3655415#msg3655415 date=1273636442]
[quote author=danielj link=topic=172276.msg3655409#msg3655409 date=1273635913]
Looking at the image properties, I see the pick you found/posted is that of a my friend. This was taken before KW replaced the helper spring.
[/quote]

Thanks for that.
So the helper spring was changed..... but how about the main spring, the KW's definitely have approx 1 less coil than the MS's
[/quote]

No, they have the same number of main coils: 5 full winds and two half-winds. I have held both in person. Look at the angle of the two "half" winds on the main springs (which are flattened). In the kw pic, the eye counts them all as full coils, but the ms one you easily miss counting one. They are actually the same, look closer.

However, the REAR springs between the two sets, and the ride height adjustment ranges, are definitely real and very noticeable.
 
#21 ·
[quote author=cali_axela link=topic=172276.msg3655522#msg3655522 date=1273647311]
No, they have the same number of main coils: 5 full winds and two half-winds. I have held both in person. Look at the angle of the two "half" winds on the main springs (which are flattened). In the kw pic, the eye counts them all as full coils, but the ms one you easily miss counting one. They are actually the same, look closer.
[/quote]

Ok I am home now and holding the MS coil in my hand.
I am holding it at the exact same orientation as the KW in the pic, and comparing them.
They are not the same. 100% certain.

The MS coil has exactly 1 extra coil.

Didnt manage to get the pic in the exact same orientation, by myself with cellphone FTL, but should give the jist, I numbered the coils and marked the ends in paint.

If you start counting just to the right of the top end, you get KW 5.2 coils, MS 6.2 coils.

5.2 coils


6.2 coils
 
#23 ·
[quote author=budgy link=topic=172276.msg3655985#msg3655985 date=1273682225]
do we actually know scientifically if there is any difference in the gauge of wire? if not, then the MS coils have a higher preload from the helper spring?
[/quote]

Nope.

If someone can measure the diameter of the wire and diameter of their KW coils with a caliper, I would go and get some calipers to accurately measure these.
But with the coating not even that would be accurate to the actual gauge of the wire.

My guess is the MS coils are lower rate main spring, with a higher preload from the higher rate helper.
 
#25 ·
[quote author=FreeFlyFreak link=topic=172276.msg3655995#msg3655995 date=1273682696]
[quote author=budgy link=topic=172276.msg3655985#msg3655985 date=1273682225]
do we actually know scientifically if there is any difference in the gauge of wire? if not, then the MS coils have a higher preload from the helper spring?
[/quote]

Nope.

If someone can measure the diameter of the wire and diameter of their KW coils with a caliper, I would go and get some calipers to accurately measure these.
But with the coating not even that would be accurate to the actual gauge of the wire.

My guess is the MS coils are lower rate main spring, with a higher preload from the higher rate helper.
[/quote]

That would make sense because of the limited adjustment range on the MS version. You can run a softer spring with reduced risk of bump stop contact.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top