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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I just installed the Hawk HPS pads using the good and well illustrated tutorial over here, and it was not too difficult. So I started driving it normally without pushing it to the limits, but I have to say that I find that the HPS bite less at the beginning than the OE pads. I would say that they are maybe more progressive in the way they stop. I would say that they require more pressure on the pedal for regular driving use compared to the OE.
I'll have to try them in extreme driving condition to give a final verdict. But for now I'm a little disappointed by their performance. The good thing is that they're very silent and seem to give away little dust.
 

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How do you feel about them performance/price wise. Are you disappointed in them because you thought they'd have more bite simply because it's an aftermarket pad? The OEM pads are pretty good IMO.
 

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Wait what? lol

Actually, I'm considering that as an upgrade since THmotorsports is doing that groupbuy for SS lines.
 

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[quote author=daveinla link=topic=137864.msg2971778#msg2971778 date=1236040493]
So I just installed the Hawk HPS pads using the good and well illustrated tutorial over here, and it was not too difficult. So I started driving it normally without pushing it to the limits, but I have to say that I find that the HPS bite less at the beginning than the OE pads. I would say that they are maybe more progressive in the way they stop. I would say that they require more pressure on the pedal for regular driving use compared to the OE.
I'll have to try them in extreme driving condition to give a final verdict. But for now I'm a little disappointed by their performance. The good thing is that they're very silent and seem to give away little dust.
[/quote]

I just put in the same pads and the SS lines. I feel like the braking is better in every way. Less fade, less mushy pedal feel, good pedal feel.

I'm not much of a brake guy, but did you completely flush the fluid, or are you using the same?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I still have the original lines and fluid. I'm seriously thinking about using SS lines as I track it once in a while.
I'm just disappointed because they advertise them as better perf compared to OE pads and guys here said some good thing about them. Don't get me wrong, they are great for the money, but I'll have to give my final verdict after a track day to see how they fare in terms of heaving breaking / fade resistance...
Anyway you can't do magic, you can't have a longer lasting pad with less noise and dust and more friction power... But they seem like a good replacement option for OE pads price wise.
BTW I changed my front pads at 18K miles... there was nothing left on them !!!! 8-o That's the results of many track days + spirited driving ! :lol:
 

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I agree, my HPS have less initial bite than the stock pads as well. But I don't mind this... they are very linear, don't fade, and do have more overall stopping power. Plus they are almost completely silent, and give off much less dust. I also feel like I'm pushing the pedal a bit harder than stock to get the same "normal" level of around town stopping power. I did SS lines and Motul fluid at the same time as the pads, and a proper bedding.
 

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The stock pads are very grippy, but they also dust (graphite). The HPS don't have a ridiculous initial bite, but for normal daily drivers it shouldn't be a negative thing. I guess the MS3 is in the middle because people expect HP+ type initial bite without the noise...

-G
 

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I agree with most of what has been said here.

While they provide less initial "bite" feel, they resist fade just as well as the stock pads and produce substantially less dust than the OEM pads.


That being said, I think I'll be opting for the HP+ next time around. :)
 

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if I remember correctly, there is a actual break in/ bedding procedure.
and going light on the pads is not part of it.
goes something like...
- stop from 60 to 0 without dragging
- do hard braking from 60 to 40...etc etc.

here we go:
Burnishing Instructions

1. After installing new brake pads, make 6 to 10 stops from approximately 30-35 mph applying moderate pressure.
2. Make an additional 2 to 3 hard stops from approximately 40 to 45 mph.
3. DO NOT DRAG BRAKES!
4. Allow 15 minutes for brake system to cool down.
5. After step 4 your new pads are ready for use.

http://www.hawkperformance.com/performance/hps.php#
 

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My friend has HPS pads and it was highly recommended to get new rotors as well to handle them, he got stoptech rotors.

Here is the break in, so like 20-30, then 50-60 and the race speed is like 80-100mph.

Q: What is the proper procedure for braking in new brake pads?
A: Brake pad break-in procedure.

1. After reaching medium speed engage brake pedal to slow car without coming to a complete stop. Release pedal quickly and do not drag brakes. Repeat four or five times.
2. At higher speeds engage brake pedal to slow car without coming to a complete stop. Release pedal quickly and do not drag brakes. Repeat five times.
3. At or near race speed engage brake pedal to slow car without coming to a complete stop. Release pedal quickly and do not drag brakes. Repeat three times. Allow a few seconds between brake engagements while car is in motion.
4. Do not hold brake pedal. Park car for approximately 20 minutes or until brake rotors are completely cool to the touch.
5. If during the above steps the brake pedal becomes soft or brake fade is noticed, park the car immediately for approximately 20 minutes. Do not hold brake pedal.

Important reminders:

* Do not attempt to use badly worn or damaged rotors with new brake pads.
* Do not drag brakes while car is moving during break-in procedure.
* Do not engage pedal while car is stopped at any time following the break-in procedure.
* Upon completing the procedure, allow the brake system to completely cool before racing.
* Applying the pedal a few times before the start of the race will allow the brake pads to heat up before attempting to reach race speeds.
* Clean a used rotor surface with fine sand paper or steel wool, rinse with water, dry and install before bedding new pads.
* Some forms of racing don't allow time for the proper break-in procedure to be performed. However, it is still very important to attempt to perform at least the core of the procedure: slow heat build up and complete cool down.


They need to be broken in or they will not function properly like you are experiencing. My friends car stops like crazy and they are very responsive.
 

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[quote author=NoobInACan link=topic=137864.msg2982616#msg2982616 date=1236569837]
if I remember correctly, there is a actual break in/ bedding procedure.
and going light on the pads is not part of it.
goes something like...
- stop from 60 to 0 without dragging
- do hard braking from 60 to 40...etc etc.

here we go:
Burnishing Instructions

1. After installing new brake pads, make 6 to 10 stops from approximately 30-35 mph applying moderate pressure.
2. Make an additional 2 to 3 hard stops from approximately 40 to 45 mph.
3. DO NOT DRAG BRAKES!
4. Allow 15 minutes for brake system to cool down.
5. After step 4 your new pads are ready for use.

http://www.hawkperformance.com/performance/hps.php#
[/quote]

QFT.

Proper bedding is ESSENTIAL to getting the most out of ANY brake pads...
 

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That break in procedure is absolutely impossible to perform anywhere near where I live. Heck, it's impossible where most people live, it just isn't realistic - except on an empty race track, or an extremely rural area lacking in cops.
 

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[quote author=kwsmithphoto link=topic=137864.msg2984525#msg2984525 date=1236651009]
That break in procedure is absolutely impossible to perform anywhere near where I live. Heck, it's impossible where most people live, it just isn't realistic - except on an empty race track, or an extremely rural area lacking in cops.
[/quote]

you dont have a highway anywhere near you? If you cant even "break" them in why did you buy them or need them? Seriously without proper break in they will NOT function as they are suppose to, you are taking a risk that could easily be avoided....
 

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[quote author=kwsmithphoto link=topic=137864.msg2984525#msg2984525 date=1236651009]
That break in procedure is absolutely impossible to perform anywhere near where I live. Heck, it's impossible where most people live, it just isn't realistic - except on an empty race track, or an extremely rural area lacking in cops.
[/quote]

I live in the middle of San Francisco and I managed to bed my pads properly... granted it was like 2am.
 

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Again, FWIW, I'm very happy with the factory brakes, they're one of the best OEM setups I've ever driven in a car of this class. Test results from magazines back me up on that - they work well enough.

I am insterested in changing the brake fluid though, and Motul sounds like the way to go. But with the stock Bridgstone's, it's a pretty good match. They do fade a little but they still work, and the OEM setup on my car is wearing very well together. The stock pads and rotors are expensive, but they work very well in a wide variety of conditions, and don't need any special bedding process.

I expect that my brakes will out last the tires, so I'm not going to look into a brake upgrade until I get better treads on the car. But again, there is no magic in a brake pad - swept area over a given rotor size is the limiting factor, with tires being the primary variable, not brake pads. More pistons in the caliper would deal with heat better, but the the OEM setup is pretty good, IMO. Sure it can be improved, but you'll need to change more than the brake pads to get a significant improvement.

IMHO, there are bigger fish to fry if you want to go faster. Start with the suspension, especially the crappy shocks, move on to better tires, then replace the fluid so it doesn't boil in extreme conditions. Braided brake lines might improve the feel, when everything is heated up in track conditions, but rubber lines work better and last longer than most people think. If braided lines were so wonderful, almost every car would come with them, but very few do.
 

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[quote author=kwsmithphoto link=topic=137864.msg3022815#msg3022815 date=1238234641]
Again, FWIW, I'm very happy with the factory brakes, they're one of the best OEM setups I've ever driven in a car of this class. Test results from magazines back me up on that - they work well enough.

I am insterested in changing the brake fluid though, and Motul sounds like the way to go. But with the stock Bridgstone's, it's a pretty good match. They do fade a little but they still work, and the OEM setup on my car is wearing very well together. The stock pads and rotors are expensive, but they work very well in a wide variety of conditions,and don't need any special bedding process.

I expect that my brakes will out last the tires, so I'm not going to look into a brake upgrade until I get better treads on the car. But again, there is no magic in a brake pad - swept area over a given rotor size is the limiting factor, with tires being the primary variable, not brake pads. More pistons in the caliper would deal with heat better, but the the OEM setup is pretty good, IMO. Sure it can be improved, but you'll need to change more than the brake pads to get a significant improvement.

IMHO, there are bigger fish to fry if you want to go faster. Start with the suspension, especially the crappy shocks, move on to better tires, then replace the fluid so it doesn't boil in extreme conditions. Braided brake lines might improve the feel, when everything is heated up in track conditions, but rubber lines work better and last longer than most people think. If braided lines were so wonderful, almost every car would come with them, but very few do.
[/quote]
I don't know what you're on ^^

When you change your pads, bed in your brakes. Its a requirement..not an option.


Brake pad compound matters!
Track vs Race vs Street vs Street + track...you don't want to track with a street compound, you'll go through the pads like butter. and matter even more depending on what kind of tire compound/tire width etc you are running. you car weight / HP #'s etc etc. all factor in.

Brake lines matter.
Steel braided lines have less flex than your usual rubber line.

Brake fluid matters as well. you don't want to be tracking with the OEM fluid. I use ATE super blue..as do a lot of others at the track/auto-x.

you should go to a track that's hard on brakes...and run a few laps.
For example, a track that has hard breaking area's but not enough long straights to cool down the brakes.
you'll be changing your brakes lines, your pads, you'll have specific set of track rotors, and you'll bleed your brakes!!!
 

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i lol'd when i saw "More pistons in the caliper would deal with heat better"... :lol:

pistons are there to apply clamping force to the brake pads. the rotors are the main way to dissipate heat from the pads.
 

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If you get OE pads you don't need to bed them.

HPS is not an upgrade. Initial bite matters a lot. It ensues more confidence in your braking system which is what you want when driving on the street.
 

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[quote author=MyZoom7 link=topic=137864.msg3023997#msg3023997 date=1238295741]
If you get OE pads you don't need to bed them.

HPS is not an upgrade. Initial bite matters a lot. It ensues more confidence in your braking system which is what you want when driving on the street.
[/quote]

High initial bite can give inexperienced brake users a false sense of security, actually (if there isn't good material consistency over a broad, high temperature range, which can be a problem with a lot of OEM compounds - though I'm not saying the MS3 OEM compound is crappy...).

I'm telling you, when I'm tracking the car and getting into the brakes deep into zone at the end of a long straight or when setting up for a corner entry, intial bite is the last thing I'm concerned with. I'm more concerned with how easy the brakes are to modulate and how well they resist fade/glazing the deeper I get into them, which my HPS pads do at least as well as the OEM pads...
 
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