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not sure I really understand still, but that is some seruiosly fast shifting and a nice car
 

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its semi-pointless.

But I still give him props for being able to pull it off... I can do the same thing on a MUCH SLOWER SCALE!!! but so can you :D

Theres a few steps involved. Say youre cruising at 5th, and you want to get into 3rd like hes doing...

1- Clutch in. Pull out of 5th. Clutch out. (Leaving it in Neutral)
2- Clutch in. Slide into 4th. Clutch out.
3- Clutch in. Pull out of 4th. Clutch out. (Leaving it in Neutral)
4- Clutch in. Slide into 3rd. Clutch out.

^^ Thats double clutching through 3 downshifts. It SEEMS complicated because hes doing two gears, but double clutching is actually quite simple broken down. This video is a good show-boat, but not a good tutorial.

To Double Clutch forward shifting from say... 2nd to 3rd.

1- Clutch in. Pull out of 2nd. Clutch out. (Leaving it in Neutral)
2. Clutch in. Push into 3rd. clutch out.

Thats it. However, thats only the clutch work. Where youre clutching in and out just to pull out of a gear, and again in and out independently to push into a gear. Theoretically, it allows the transmission to leave 3rd at the right speed. and by letting it free-spin in neutral, and clutch in AGAIN to enter 3rd, youre introducing to to the speed of 3rd gear. Im probably not making sense here.

The gas brake work is sort of pointless while forward driving. In turns it can help because you slow the car down, whle keeping revs up.

Heres how... Prior to entering a turn you need to slow down... so using a simpler example than the video. going from 4th to 3rd...

Steps 1 and 3 have two actions that need to be done simultaneously, so I broke down step number and action. (i.e.: 1S - Step 1, Shiftwork / 1AB - Step 1, Acceleration, Braking)

1GB - Apply brakes while coming to the turn.
1C- You clutch in. Pull out of 4th. Clutch out.
2GB- While clutched out and in Neutral, you twist your foot where your toes are still on the brake, but you apply some gas with your heel.
3C- Clutch in. Push into third. Clutch out.
3AB- Accelerate out of the turn.

Whats happening is in step 1, youre slowing the car down and getting out of the higher gear. In step 2 yourerev matching to the lower gear you will enter, so as not to lose any velocity or speed once you want to exit the turn. You should be at the apex of the turn by this point. In step 3, youre entering the lower gear, and since your revs are matched, its a smoother/more powerful transition. This is basically once youre straightening out and preparing to exit.

what makes this a fancy technique is the fact that hes clutching in/out independently once to exit the gear, and once to enter the next gear. Its not uncommon for most people to do the above steps, but instead of clutching out when pulling out of 4th, they usually leave their foot on the clutch while heel/toeing, and they enter 3rd, and just wait for their moment to release the clutch and propel forward in the next gear. The double clutch is theoretically allowing the transmission to come up to speed. Its not necessary, and pretty much a useless tactic. Keeping your foot on the clutch and rev-matching is just as effective.

Jeez, i hope the above helps a bit and isnt just a jumbled mess of words.
 

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Its not semi-pointless, its completely pointless on any trans with synchros.

This guy is a poseur. Watch all the extra movement in his hand and arm when shifting. He's going for style points and nothing else.

It's not faster or better in any way than rev matching. Rev matching allows you to avoid upsetting the car when you let the clutch out when downshifting. As a side benefit it is easier on the synchros.

Oh, and nice batting gloves.......
 

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yeah I watched the entire video and he did seem to "show off" a bit......I still don't understand how clutching in and out between gears is going to help anything, if it was meant to shift like that the car would be designed to only accept gears that way right??
 

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double clutching is a technique initially used by truckers with their huge turbo diesel motors which had beefy unsynchronized trannies...

But like someone above said. With synchro's its pointless, because synchros are SYNCHRONIZERS, in other words they SYNCHRONIZE, or match up the timing/speed of the gears and shaft... A mazdaspeed 3 **I believe** has 3 synchros in gears 1 and 2, and 2 for each of the following gears... snychros also stop you from entering a low gear at too high of an engine speed, because the shaft is not turning as fast and could cause damage if it were forced in. I still feel double clutching can smoothen out a shift, I sometimes do it in my 1996 jetta because the snychros are shot to shit, but its really something that is just an anal-preventative measure. It doesnt make you shift any faster or better by any means.

--

Oh and here, I just found this on wiki, there may be better articles, but it basically goes into further detail about double clutching... I also noticed a link on the bottom about a video of double clutching and heel toe in a racecar... but i didnt watch it.. it might be helpful???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_declutch

enjoy
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
[quote author=G Bush link=topic=70403.msg1230731#msg1230731 date=1172391663]
Its not semi-pointless, its completely pointless on any trans with synchros.

This guy is a poseur. Watch all the extra movement in his hand and arm when shifting. He's going for style points and nothing else.

It's not faster or better in any way than rev matching. Rev matching allows you to avoid upsetting the car when you let the clutch out when downshifting. As a side benefit it is easier on the synchros.

Oh, and nice batting gloves.......
[/quote]

Yes he did make this video for demonstration purposes but he IS rev-matching, that's the point of doubleclutching unless you're referring to single-clutch rev matching which most prefer. What is considered pointless by many in that video is having to run through all the gears rather than just go from 6-2. I tend to agree, however, you'll get better, more controllable engine braking by going through all the gears like he's doing. Plus it's easier on the drivetrain. He is obviously a very skilled driver and most will never shift that quickly or use that technique but it's still cool to watch and proves that doubleclutching can be lightning quick.
 

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[quote author=Boost Addict link=topic=70403.msg1230742#msg1230742 date=1172393586]
Theyre actually cycling gloves.(and I dont mean motorcycling) Pearl Izumi. :)


I mountain bike, thats how I know.
[/quote]

I noticed this too. Pearl Izumi FTW. LOL.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
[quote author=Nymisus link=topic=70403.msg1230759#msg1230759 date=1172396810]
yeah I watched the entire video and he did seem to "show off" a bit......I still don't understand how clutching in and out between gears is going to help anything, if it was meant to shift like that the car would be designed to only accept gears that way right??
[/quote]

If I was that good, I'd show off too. :) Anyway like Boost Addict said, doubleclutching is the older method of rev-matching before manuals were synchronized. And many professional drivers still use it during track racing even though to us (and for everyday driving) it may seem pointless.
 

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If you want to see what you need to do and try to learn from a video probably the best would be from a Japanese TV show named Best Motoring...they usually show the foot work and most of the guys are awesome.
 

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[quote author=Betelgeuse link=topic=70403.msg1230834#msg1230834 date=1172412343]
[quote author=Nymisus link=topic=70403.msg1230759#msg1230759 date=1172396810]
yeah I watched the entire video and he did seem to "show off" a bit......I still don't understand how clutching in and out between gears is going to help anything, if it was meant to shift like that the car would be designed to only accept gears that way right??
[/quote]

If I was that good, I'd show off too. :) Anyway like Boost Addict said, doubleclutching is the older method of rev-matching before manuals were synchronized. And many professional drivers still use it during track racing even though to us (and for everyday driving) it may seem pointless.

[/quote]

From what I understand, the only reason some racers still do it is because some of those trannies are unsynchronized and straight cut.. such as rally cars, etc...

At least thats the impression I get.
 

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[quote author=zoom_craigy_zoom link=topic=70403.msg1230824#msg1230824 date=1172411827]
[quote author=Boost Addict link=topic=70403.msg1230742#msg1230742 date=1172393586]
Theyre actually cycling gloves.(and I dont mean motorcycling) Pearl Izumi. :)


I mountain bike, thats how I know.
[/quote]

I noticed this too. Pearl Izumi FTW. LOL.
[/quote]

And damn it, reminds me... its such a nice sunday morning... If I werent sick, Id go hit a trail...
 

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The guy apparently still lives in the eighties :shock: it woul've been more interesting to show us how he can change from 2nd to 3rd by clutchning once into neutral and then into third without clutch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
[quote author=Boost Addict link=topic=70403.msg1230942#msg1230942 date=1172418721]
[quote author=Betelgeuse link=topic=70403.msg1230834#msg1230834 date=1172412343]
[quote author=Nymisus link=topic=70403.msg1230759#msg1230759 date=1172396810]
yeah I watched the entire video and he did seem to "show off" a bit......I still don't understand how clutching in and out between gears is going to help anything, if it was meant to shift like that the car would be designed to only accept gears that way right??
[/quote]

If I was that good, I'd show off too. :) Anyway like Boost Addict said, doubleclutching is the older method of rev-matching before manuals were synchronized. And many professional drivers still use it during track racing even though to us (and for everyday driving) it may seem pointless.

[/quote]

From what I understand, the only reason some racers still do it is because some of those trannies are unsynchronized and straight cut.. such as rally cars, etc...

At least thats the impression I get.
[/quote]

Not really, most trannies are now synchronized. They do it because, according to some of them, it results in very accurate rev-matching as the input shaft is matched to the output. It also helps to preserve the synchros however I do agree, that's no longer a big deal. Personally, I think many do it because there's an 'art' or a 'cool factor' to it. Also if a synchro does go bad, knowing how to double clutch would really come in handy.
 

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It's just like switching into 4wd. You can shift as fast as you want but the tranny won't go until the parts are brought up to speed. If its a synchro'd tranny then he's just being a F&F granny shifting poser.

The real skill comes from learning to shift without using the clutch. I'm figuring out the revs on the ms3, I found 4th so far
 

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[quote author=Focused link=topic=70403.msg1230964#msg1230964 date=1172419789]
I love the JDM background track. It really gets the blood pumping.
[/quote]

Really? Haha, the first thing I did while watching the vid was turn the sound off. Talk about obnoxious. And is it just me, or was it hard to figure out if that was a male or female driving the car? I only now assume it's a he because everybody else here seems to think it is.

As far as the technique goes, while it's fun to watch and debateably even to do, it is pretty much pointless. When I first started doing lapping days at road courses a good friend of mine was my instructor, and watching his feet while he was driving the course was very entertaining. It looked like he was dancing. :lol:
 

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[quote author=Betelgeuse link=topic=70403.msg1230972#msg1230972 date=1172420335]
[quote author=Boost Addict link=topic=70403.msg1230942#msg1230942 date=1172418721]
[quote author=Betelgeuse link=topic=70403.msg1230834#msg1230834 date=1172412343]
[quote author=Nymisus link=topic=70403.msg1230759#msg1230759 date=1172396810]
yeah I watched the entire video and he did seem to "show off" a bit......I still don't understand how clutching in and out between gears is going to help anything, if it was meant to shift like that the car would be designed to only accept gears that way right??
[/quote]

If I was that good, I'd show off too. :) Anyway like Boost Addict said, doubleclutching is the older method of rev-matching before manuals were synchronized. And many professional drivers still use it during track racing even though to us (and for everyday driving) it may seem pointless.

[/quote]

From what I understand, the only reason some racers still do it is because some of those trannies are unsynchronized and straight cut.. such as rally cars, etc...

At least thats the impression I get.
[/quote]

Not really, most trannies are now synchronized. They do it because, according to some of them, it results in very accurate rev-matching as the input shaft is matched to the output. It also helps to preserve the synchros however I do agree, that's no longer a big deal. Personally, I think many do it because there's an 'art' or a 'cool factor' to it. Also if a synchro does go bad, knowing how to double clutch would really come in handy.
[/quote]

Well I was just under the impression that true race trannies were overbuilt... And I read somewhere that they dont bother with synchros... Perhaps Ive understood incorrectly. But yeah, Im with you, its good to know how to do it.
 
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