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Discussion Starter #1
Not being a smartaleck here..........

Why is this a political issue? If you work, you should have health care, right? And if you cant afford it, then there are goverment programs that take care of it. At least thats what I thought. My family has health care through my work, so I dont really see why my taxes should pay for the health care of others.
 

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[quote author=1bad3 link=topic=71045.msg1247456#msg1247456 date=1173001272]
Not being a smartaleck here..........

Why is this a political issue? If you work, you should have health care, right? And if you cant afford it, then there are goverment programs that take care of it. At least thats what I thought. My family has health care through my work, so I dont really see why my taxes should pay for the health care of others.
[/quote]

The biggest supporters of national health care are actually the corporations. They've gotten tired of footing the bill for health care for all their employees, and their family's. Also, the majority of part time jobs do not offer health care (or at least, you have to contribute significantly to it). Also, small businesses have a hard time affording it. And then of course there's the 'emotional' issue.

Basically, national health care has a ton of support, for a variety of reasons, and from groups that normally wouldn't work together (for example, massive corporations and and touchy-feely social groups).
 

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Solution: Move to Canada :D

The only problem is that a lot of people go see the doctor for everything causing long waits. But if you fuck yourself up pretty bad you get in right away.
 

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I own a small business, so I have to pay for my own medical insurance. I pay a very high premium for my family, because of my pre-existing spinal fractures and my wife's C-section. If I worked for a large company, it wouldn't be a problem, but I don't so it's a major problem.

Now if I didn't work at all, and had no assets for the hospital to come after, then I could just sponge off the system like other people do.



Darryl
 

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[quote author=1bad3 link=topic=71045.msg1247456#msg1247456 date=1173001272]
Not being a smartaleck here..........

Why is this a political issue? If you work, you should have health care, right? And if you cant afford it, then there are goverment programs that take care of it. At least thats what I thought. My family has health care through my work, so I dont really see why my taxes should pay for the health care of others.
[/quote]

Problem is there are gaping loopholes in the social safety net. We had a story locally about a boy who died of a brain infection that started out as a tooth abcess. $250,000 in medical care for brain surgery and hospitalization because he wasn't insured for $5000 in dental care.
 

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[quote author=BigTrucker link=topic=71045.msg1247791#msg1247791 date=1173029390]
Solution: Move to Canada :D

The only problem is that a lot of people go see the doctor for everything causing long waits. But if you fuck yourself up pretty bad you get in right away.
[/quote]

Uh, that's the OPPOSITE of the solution he's talking about. He DOESN'T want universal health care (and for that matter, I don't particuarly either).
 

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[quote author=danaceau link=topic=71045.msg1247950#msg1247950 date=1173035555]
[quote author=1bad3 link=topic=71045.msg1247456#msg1247456 date=1173001272]
Not being a smartaleck here..........

Why is this a political issue? If you work, you should have health care, right? And if you cant afford it, then there are goverment programs that take care of it. At least thats what I thought. My family has health care through my work, so I dont really see why my taxes should pay for the health care of others.
[/quote]

Problem is there are gaping loopholes in the social safety net. We had a story locally about a boy who died of a brain infection that started out as a tooth abcess. $250,000 in medical care for brain surgery and hospitalization because he wasn't insured for $5000 in dental care.
[/quote]

Actually the issue was, they had dental coverage, but so few dentisits accept medicaid dental coverage that it is difficult to find one and might mean a long drive to get to one (and the family might not own a car). Basically the kid had a tooth ache and it got ignored until it became an abscess and spread to his brain. Of course it might well have been treated earlier had he had better coverage (then again it might not have been).

As someone mentioned earlier, it is an issue with a gap in coverage. Those people who are really poor (IE no jobs or maybe single minimum wage income family) can get medicaid, once you get to fairly low income levels like 20k a year or so, even for familys they can't get medicaid anymore and certainly don't have enough money to afford premiums themselves (some can easily be over $2000 a month for a family of 4).
-Matt
 

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Well, national health care isn't going to be any exceptional coverage... and remember, dental is NOT health care (by our way of insuring things), so national health care doesn't necessarily have ANYTHING to do with dental. So that may (or may not, I'm not really trying to make any conclusions) not have helped anything.
 

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[quote author=azazel1024 link=topic=71045.msg1249601#msg1249601 date=1173114644]
As someone mentioned earlier, it is an issue with a gap in coverage. Those people who are really poor (IE no jobs or maybe single minimum wage income family) can get medicaid, once you get to fairly low income levels like 20k a year or so, even for familys they can't get medicaid anymore and certainly don't have enough money to afford premiums themselves (some can easily be over $2000 a month for a family of 4).
-Matt
[/quote]

+1, and extend the problem to pretty much all of our social services.

[quote author=BigTrucker link=topic=71045.msg1247791#msg1247791 date=1173029390]
Solution: Move to Canada :D

The only problem is that a lot of people go see the doctor for everything causing long waits. But if you fuck yourself up pretty bad you get in right away.
[/quote]

no, thank you. I prefer to keep the .gov as far away from my health as I can. I wouldn't have to pay for insurance anymore, but my taxes would likely go up by at least the same amount. So I'd be paying at least as much and have less control over my healthcare. Um.....NO.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
But its socially irresponsible, especially with children, to not work full time. Most full time jobs assist with insurance, right? To me it seems like more of a problem on a personal level.
 

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I heard some pretty bad stories about government run healthcare. when I lived over there, many peoploe complained that the NHS (British health care system) had caused a shortage of good doctors because the good ones left for private practice in the US or elsewhere, leaving the citizens in the less capable hands of many foreign doctors, some of whom they couldn't even understand during office visits.

also, one friend's mom had to wait over a year for hip replacement surgery....many in England get additional private insurance so they can at least get more immediate care if needed. if she had supplemental insurance, she would have been treated much sooner.

i don't think i want to go that direction in the states, although i do believe that all children should be covered....tell you what, let's treat the children and sterilize the parents if they cannot pay.
unfortunately, in this country, it sometimes seems like the worst parents, who are least able to care for and provide for the children, have the most kids... :x
 

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[quote author=1bad3 link=topic=71045.msg1253106#msg1253106 date=1173235887]
But its socially irresponsible, especially with children, to not work full time. Most full time jobs assist with insurance, right? To me it seems like more of a problem on a personal level.
[/quote]

it depends on the employer. Insurance is a benefit, and an incentive to employees. Some small companies don't offer it, and many larger companies that employ lots of low-wage workers don't. Consider that an employer may consider anything over 35 hours to be full time, and offer full time employees insurance, but keep most of their people exactly at 35 hours.

I would never work someplace that didn't offer insurance to me. But I've got in-demand skills and have the ability to pick and choose where I work. If you're an uneducated shelf-stocker, you're likely working at the first store that offered you a job.

In the case where the kid died because of the tooth abcess, I read that the mother's other son had 6 infected teeth as well. That's not a case of not having insurance, it's a case of bad parenting. Even if she did have dental coverage, I doubt that such a parent would have paid for the required dental care for her children.

Of course, liberals spin it as a need for universal health care and remove all fault from the negligent parent <wink>
 

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Yes it is social irresponsible for at least one parent to not work full time. However a lot of full time jobs do not provide health insurance or it is very expensive. A number of other employers deliberately prevent you from working full time (like grocery stores, electronics stores, etc) so they will schedule you say 36-38hrs a week so you can't get benifits.

There are plenty of people out there who just don't have the job skills to work a 'nice enough' job that would provide health benifits. In fact, millions of them.
-Matt

PS some of the problem is also there are plenty of not social responsible people out there.

PPS John, sadly you very last point seems to be all to true. See this funny video clip (which is unfortunately WAY to true) http://emuse.ebaumsworld.com/watch/8245
 

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[quote author=murph182 link=topic=71045.msg1253844#msg1253844 date=1173280671]
Of course, liberals spin it as a need for universal health care and remove all fault from the negligent parent <wink>
[/quote]

Damn straight, I will spin it however I want! :D

I can't help but place the largest amount of blame on the mother in this case.
-Matt
 
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