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Discussion Starter #1
I know many of you guys have been dreaming of it. i know i have everytime i see a SRT-4, EVO, or scubby w/ one. Has any one tried to see how much room we have in our front bumper for a bar ad plate intercooler? Even if we have to trim it a little bit. Then we could run ANY BOV we want w/out having to buy a adpater.


I know then theres the problem of boost levels dropping, but u could fix that with a manual boost controler.

any other ideas?
 

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cpe is still working on it to my knowledge.. without modifying the frame at all I think. Personally unless it's a huge difference I like the stealth TMIC.
 

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in the same boat - like the stealth look + trying to keep my warranty as long as possible :p
reason why ill probably go for the ETS TMIC untill warranty runs out then hey there will be plenty out there maybe even a RWD or AWD version mmmmmm
 

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Discussion Starter #4
well for those who really not scared of the warranty.

a FMIC would drop boost temps alot.

even if u added a FMIC, and upgarde the turbo, to make up for the loost of boost pressure from the FMIC,
 

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[quote author=peanutsparts link=topic=70192.msg1226912#msg1226912 date=1172246517]
well for those who really not scared of the warranty.

a FMIC would drop boost temps alot.

even if u added a FMIC, and upgarde the turbo, to make up for the loost of boost pressure from the FMIC,
[/quote]

A pressure drop is definitely a reasonable expectation, but perhaps we shouldn't judge the circumstances before anyone even produces any type of usable data...

I'm sure someone will come out with results soon enough.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
How bout using the FMIC from the Highboost's MZ3 kit?

the intercooler would fit, and the piping to the TB would be the same, except on the MZ3 kit, the turbo is switch the other way.
 

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use of a Ms6 FMIC might work

Also CObb and a couple other places are working on getting one done
 

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Discussion Starter #8
[quote author=Mattleegee link=topic=70192.msg1275281#msg1275281 date=1174267987]
use of a Ms6 FMIC might work

Also CObb and a couple other places are working on getting one done
[/quote]

maybe, but since thier front clip i different from ours, U'll have a better luck with the MZ3 FMIC.
 

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[quote author=Mattleegee link=topic=70192.msg1275281#msg1275281 date=1174267987]
use of a Ms6 FMIC might work

Also CObb and a couple other places are working on getting one done
[/quote]TurboXS has something in the skunkworks.
 

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I believe there are 3 or more projects in the works... Cobb being somewhat close. The sleeper look is nice, and opening the hood to one of the thicker TMIC is pretty nice.

Gains gains gains is the word I am waiting to verify.
 

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a FMIC is nice but after a few hundred/thousand miles, the IC is stuck full of bugs and small dings from pebbles.....so far Im happy with the TMIC's performance. If a bit down the road I want more performance, the larger TMIC would be my choice. I'll leave the FMICs to the people that want the utmost performance from the engine. I would also want a different hood with some exhaust vents to let out some of the hot underhood air. Just my 2 cents.
 

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+1


[quote author=wbmazda3 link=topic=70192.msg1276084#msg1276084 date=1174316122]
a FMIC is nice but after a few hundred/thousand miles, the IC is stuck full of bugs and small dings from pebbles.....so far Im happy with the TMIC's performance. If a bit down the road I want more performance, the larger TMIC would be my choice. I'll leave the FMICs to the people that want the utmost performance from the engine. I would also want a different hood with some exhaust vents to let out some of the hot underhood air. Just my 2 cents.
[/quote]
 

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Discussion Starter #13
[quote author=wbmazda3 link=topic=70192.msg1276084#msg1276084 date=1174316122]
a FMIC is nice but after a few hundred/thousand miles, the IC is stuck full of bugs and small dings from pebbles.....so far Im happy with the TMIC's performance. If a bit down the road I want more performance, the larger TMIC would be my choice. I'll leave the FMICs to the people that want the utmost performance from the engine. I would also want a different hood with some exhaust vents to let out some of the hot underhood air. Just my 2 cents.
[/quote]

yeah a Evo style hood would help, I'm not to sure bout a Huge scoop like a STI though.

But "GAINS" is what we want though.
 

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FMIC's are nice, but remember the small stock turbo is going to have to pressurize a volume of air roughly four times that of the stock setup. Lag might not show up on a dyno, but between shifts, I'd be surprised if it wasn't very noticeable. That's why it sometimes takes a larger turbo for a FMIC to justify itself.

Also, before the outrageous claims start coming, remember how incredibly easy it is for a vendor to show dyno gains on a turbo car by heat soaking or inadequately venting the stock TMIC. In fact, some vendor claims just don't make sense at all. Here's an example: http://www.xs-engineering.com/xsstore/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=27&idproduct=3484

Their "in" and "out" temperatures are total crap unless I'm misunderstanding what they measured. The charge going into the intercooler cannot possibly be 121 degrees for the FMIC and 240 degrees for the TMIC. That would imply the turbo is compressing the air roughly four times more on the TMIC. Since the stock TMIC has about a 3psi pressure drop, the difference in charge temperature should be more like 30 degrees, not 120. No intercooler will cool the charge 120 degrees prior to the intercooler, but somehow XS Engineering claims this. I don't know what they really measured, but whatever their methodology, the charge leaving the stock intercooler never gets 245 degrees as they report. So, the test is bogus all around.

That's just one obvious example of data fabrication. Other companies are either more vague with their data (so there's less to dispute) or just don't test their setups altogether (other than for fitment and a misleading dyno run). It might seem like most FMIC's would offer similar performance, but the endtanks on many designs are so poorly engineered that the large core isn't being entirely utilized. Thus, there's potential for intercooler effectiveness to vary greatly- a lot of setups use lousy endtanks without any internal diverters to keep costs down.

On the Subaru STI, many find big TMIC's more desirable than FMIC's on the stock turbo. Manufacturer's claimed gains aren't seen in practice over an upgraded TMIC, though both outperform the stock TMIC once the car is retuned. That said, the STI's TMIC location is much better than the Mazdaspeed3's, so maybe FMIC's will be preferable for this car. The larger Mazdaspeed3 TMIC's can't grow much in width or length, nor will the stock setup ever promote lots of air flow (even with a hood scoop, the valve cover restricts the air's exit path).

Personally, I think the ultimate setup for the Mazdaspeed3 would be a water to air design. It circumvents FMIC lag but removes the size restriction and necessity of airflow to the TMIC location. For those not familiar with the design, this is a good read:
http://www.mr2supercharger.com/IntercoolingPage5.html

Anyway- this is just my reminder to evaluate the FMIC's and not buy the first FMIC out there just because it is the first. Maybe it'll be good, maybe not- but demand the data before you buy!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
[quote author=stretch link=topic=70192.msg1276172#msg1276172 date=1174317805]
FMIC's are nice, but remember the small stock turbo is going to have to pressurize a volume of air roughly four times that of the stock setup. Lag might not show up on a dyno, but between shifts, I'd be surprised if it wasn't very noticeable. That's why it sometimes takes a larger turbo for a FMIC to justify itself.

Also, before the outrageous claims start coming, remember how incredibly easy it is for a vendor to show dyno gains on a turbo car by heat soaking or inadequately venting the stock TMIC. In fact, some vendor claims just don't make sense at all. Here's an example: http://www.xs-engineering.com/xsstore/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=27&idproduct=3484

Their "in" and "out" temperatures are total crap unless I'm misunderstanding what they measured. The charge going into the intercooler cannot possibly be 121 degrees for the FMIC and 240 degrees for the TMIC. That would imply the turbo is compressing the air roughly four times more on the TMIC. Since the stock TMIC has about a 3psi pressure drop, the difference in charge temperature should be more like 30 degrees, not 120. No intercooler will cool the charge 120 degrees prior to the intercooler, but somehow XS Engineering claims this. I don't know what they really measured, but whatever their methodology, the charge leaving the stock intercooler never gets 245 degrees as they report. So, the test is bogus all around.

That's just one obvious example of data fabrication. Other companies are either more vague with their data (so there's less to dispute) or just don't test their setups altogether (other than for fitment and a misleading dyno run). It might seem like most FMIC's would offer similar performance, but the endtanks on many designs are so poorly engineered that the large core isn't being entirely utilized. Thus, there's potential for intercooler effectiveness to vary greatly- a lot of setups use lousy endtanks without any internal diverters to keep costs down.

On the Subaru STI, many find big TMIC's more desirable than FMIC's on the stock turbo. Manufacturer's claimed gains aren't seen in practice over an upgraded TMIC, though both outperform the stock TMIC once the car is retuned. That said, the STI's TMIC location is much better than the Mazdaspeed3's, so maybe FMIC's will be preferable for this car. The larger Mazdaspeed3 TMIC's can't grow much in width or length, nor will the stock setup ever promote lots of air flow (even with a hood scoop, the valve cover restricts the air's exit path).

Personally, I think the ultimate setup for the Mazdaspeed3 would be a water to air design. It circumvents FMIC lag but removes the size restriction and necessity of airflow to the TMIC location. For those not familiar with the design, this is a good read:
http://www.mr2supercharger.com/IntercoolingPage5.html

Anyway- this is just my reminder to evaluate the FMIC's and not buy the first FMIC out there just because it is the first. Maybe it'll be good, maybe not- but demand the data before you buy!
[/quote]

thats true. Has anyone install a boost controller to increase boost, then pressure loose for a FMIC won't be a problem. There MS6 using MBC controlers w/out any problems.
 

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[quote author=peanutsparts link=topic=70192.msg1276294#msg1276294 date=1174320502]
thats true. Has anyone install a boost controller to increase boost, then pressure loose for a FMIC won't be a problem. There MS6 using MBC controlers w/out any problems.
[/quote]
Pressure loss shouldn't happen regardless. If anything, you should see more boost from the lower pressure drop of the FMIC.

Lag happens, though, and a boost controller will not fix this. It happens because the volume of air required to hit a certain boost pressure increases some four times with a FMIC. So, it takes longer for the compressor to pressurize that volume.
 

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From what ive seen on a FMIC gti with the stock K03 lag between gears wont be an issue and lag off the line isnt bad. Noticeable but not bad, this comes down to personal preference and in my opinion the minor amount of lag is a good trade off for more boost.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
[quote author=Coulda link=topic=70192.msg1276542#msg1276542 date=1174326372]
From what ive seen on a FMIC gti with the stock K03 lag between gears wont be an issue and lag off the line isnt bad. Noticeable but not bad, this comes down to personal preference and in my opinion the minor amount of lag is a good trade off for more boost.
[/quote]

yeah, i won't mind it either, but no one will know how lag until we get a kit made.
 

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where did you get that pic from?

looks like a member from OzMazda but it was only a test fit - no piping etc. also i think that car was "testing" CP-E CAI fitment a few months back

or im totally on the wrong track :p
 
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