Mazda3 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 68 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
708 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
recommendation was to post this in a new thread, so here it is.

just got my new MS3 this week, so its been a pleasure joining this forum and catching up on all the MS3 goodies hitting the market.

I must say a few words about the Cobb AccessPort (AP). I just sold my 2005 Subaru Legacy GT to get a MS3. Needed a change of pace.

I purchased the Cobb AP early on during my long journey of heavy-duty modding of my LGT. I must say the AP was the wisest and most cost-effective item that I got.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not trying to steer anybody away from XEDE or any other ECU tuning device. I just felt compelled to discuss some of my experiences with the AP.

To clarify a key point: the Cobb AP is virtually idiot-proof. It comes loaded with several "base" maps. All you do is plug it into the OBDII port and follow some very simple steps that are displayed right on the AP screen. It takes about two minutes to reflash the ECU with a new base map. Then you unplug the AP and enjoy the show.

I had the older version AP that looks like an industrial appliance. The new AP v2.0 look like a modern cell phone or PDA device. Much smaller with a color screen, etc. A really nice touch is that the AP can be left connected to the OBDII port and it acts like an electronic gauge. It can display dozens of parameters in real-time directly from the ECU. For instance Boost pressure, EGT, temps, etc.

If Cobb follows the same AP approach as with the Subarus, then there is another level to it. These are called "Stages." Stage 1 maps are intended for the vehicle in fully stock form. No upgrades at all. All catalytic converters in place for instance. They provide an assortment of Stg 1 maps that vary only for the octane rating of gasoline available where you live. They even provide separate maps for CA/NV crappy 91-oct gas versus other parts of the country that sell "real" 91 octane. For those lucky souls that live where 92 or 93 octane gas is sold there are separate maps as well to maximize the gains.

Since I live in So.Cal, I had to live with the CAN maps (California, Arizona, Nevada).

Stage 2 maps - at least in the Subaru world that I came from - required modifications to the exhaust hardware. Utmost importance was eliminating the single cat in the stock uppipe (UP). At least if you had a model year before 2007. They removed the stock UP cat and introduced an "air pump" device of some sort that accomplishes the emissions tricks without the cat. In addition to a catless UP, most replaced the stock downpipe (DP) that has two cats with either a catless DP or a catted DP with a hi-flo ceramic or metallic cat.

As the AccessPort market grew, Cobb introduced two companion products: StreetTuner (ST) and ProTuner (PT). ST is a software package that is PC-based. It allows user (AP owner) custom tuning using a very modern, windows like interface. The tables had smart features that would recommend changes and turn values Green, Yellow or Red depending on the risk factors.

My favorite product was the ProTuner option. This was even more powerful tuning software made available only to qualified, certified Cobb tuners. This allows for 100% custom dyno tuning to maximize gains. Once the professional tuner is finished, he/she simply uploads your custom AP map into the unit. Its always there for reflashing the ECU if need be.

Lastly, the AP can be "unmarried" to the car and the stock ECU map is re-written. Then you can resell your AP for probably 75% of what you paid for it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
411 Posts
I've been on Nasioc for about 3 years now, mostly just in Off-Topic, but i've been excited to see what Cobb comes up with, based on what i've heard from Subie owners.

Cobb's been pretty tight lipped for a few months now...hopefully theyre hard at work.

Thanks for the concise info...very useful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
329 Posts
[quote author=ZooZoom link=topic=67470.msg1160449#msg1160449 date=1169362130]
To clarify a key point: the Cobb AP is virtually idiot-proof. It comes loaded with several "base" maps. All you do is plug it into the OBDII port and follow some very simple steps that are displayed right on the AP screen. It takes about two minutes to reflash the ECU with a new base map. Then you unplug the AP and enjoy the show.
[/quote]

Well I will be putting this to the test, because I am an idiot (read: noob) when it comes to tuning! However, I really want to explore the potential of this car, and I think this is the best way to do it for someone like me.

[quote author=ZooZoom link=topic=67470.msg1160449#msg1160449 date=1169362130]
As the AccessPort market grew, Cobb introduced two companion products: StreetTuner (ST) and ProTuner (PT). ST is a software package that is PC-based. It allows user (AP owner) custom tuning using a very modern, windows like interface. The tables had smart features that would recommend changes and turn values Green, Yellow or Red depending on the risk factors.
[/quote]

Was this extra, and if so how much did this cost?

Thanks for the informative post.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
355 Posts
COBB website has the WRX street tuner program listed for $195.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
329 Posts
[quote author=sturge-speed3 link=topic=67470.msg1162254#msg1162254 date=1169479293]
COBB website has the WRX street tuner program listed for $195.
[/quote]

Thanks. So basically that puts it in the same price range as the XEDE, as it comes with a similar software included in its $1,000 price? Nutari, I'm sure if you read this you can verify, thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
708 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
sturge is correct, you can buy ST software for a couple hundred bucks - after you buy the AP itself.

ProTuner is a whole different ballgame. Its basically a "super StreetTuner" software only available to authorized (trained & certified) Cobb tuners. The custom tuning is done on the dyno. Afterwards, the new map is flashed into the ECU and a copy is saved on your AP.

The so-called "canned" maps that Cobb provides already loaded on the AP - or updated versions easily downloaded from the website - are sufficient for 98% of the user base. Only those with the skilz (or balz) to monkey with the ECU and perform road tuning dare use the ST software. And getting a ProTune makes sense if you perform a menu of mods on the car that you want to optimize (say intake, exhaust, FMIC, boost controller, etc). Of course, getting a ProTune is absolutely the best way to go if you take the more dramatic step of upgrading the turbo itself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,062 Posts
I must say "WOW" and thanks for sharing
I like the bit where you can reflash the ECU to stock. The more I read about COBB, the more I like it.
question: has anyone EVER had any serious engine blowouts/problems with using the Access port on a stock car ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,979 Posts
[quote author=NoobInACan link=topic=67470.msg1163756#msg1163756 date=1169526511]
I must say "WOW" and thanks for sharing
I like the bit where you can reflash the ECU to stock. The more I read about COBB, the more I like it.
question: has anyone EVER had any serious engine blowouts/problems with using the Access port on a stock car ?


[/quote]

no.


well, problems were limited to fuel issues, that were resolved with updated maps... But NOTHING critical.

Oh and for 2006 WRXs I guess the wastegate doesnt bleed the boost off well enough and the engine would go into over-boost protection mode... But most of those issues were resolved with people porting the wastegate, or getting a more efficient turbo-back system... This wasnt AccessPORT related.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,979 Posts
well no... the ecu/AP tells it how much boost to hold and how much to bleed out... unfortunately, the turbo ITSELF has a narrow wastegate, which doesnt bleed out the extra boost properly enough, so the car overboosts.... then goes into protection mode... but a high flow/unrestricted turbo0back takes care of that in most cases.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,062 Posts
so let me get this right.
COBB will release the access port with STage 1 maps.

1) MAZDASPEED 3 AccessPORT™ 2.0
2) MAZDASPEED 3 ProTUNER™ software
2) MAZDASPEED 3 StreetTUNER™ software

They will then release

3) MAZDASPEED 3 Cat-back Exhaust
4) MAZDASPEED 3 Downpipe w/ WBO2 Bung, catted and catless (for off-road applications)
5) MAZDASPEED 3 Intake
6) MAZDASPEED 3 FMIC


After the hardware is available. they will release the stage 2 maps for their hardware only ?


what if I get the access port -stage 1 maps. and then get a Mazda install CAI and cat-back and use COBB Stage 2 maps ???
any signs if they will ever release Stage 2 maps for Mazda CAI and cat-back ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
708 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
actually, I believe that Trey Cobb stated they intend to address additional AP Stage maps specifically for the Mazdaspeed factory aftermarket products like CAI, TBE, etc. Naturally, if and when Cobb gets around to introducing their own Cobb line of products like the SF intake, Downpipes, CBE etc. then they should be offering AP maps accordingly.

Please keep in mind - like I said in my previous post - if you want to optimize your ECU tune for a setup other than pure stock, then you have two choices. Buy ST software for a couple hundred bucks and customize your ECU tune by yourself - if your wise enough. Or take your car to a qualified Cobb ProTuner and get an optimized map from a dyno tune.

My experience is that each ProTune costs approx. $400 bucks. Not cheap. But neither is dyno time with a skilled tuner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,062 Posts
[quote author=ZooZoom link=topic=67470.msg1164783#msg1164783 date=1169582373]
...Please keep in mind - like I said in my previous post - if you want to optimize your ECU tune for a setup other than pure stock, then you have two choices. Buy ST software for a couple hundred bucks and customize your ECU tune by yourself - if your wise enough. Or take your car to a qualified Cobb ProTuner and get an optimized map from a dyno tune. ...
[/quote]

thanks

but if COBB comes back and says.
-Here are Stage 1 maps for Stock
-Here are Stage 2 maps if you have a Mazda performance accesory (CAI and CB-exhust).

that would totally rock!

and whoa - AP 2.0 is DEADLY!

http://www.hspn.tv/?videoid=71&catid=16
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
329 Posts
[quote author=NoobInACan link=topic=67470.msg1164862#msg1164862 date=1169584236]
[quote author=ZooZoom link=topic=67470.msg1164783#msg1164783 date=1169582373]
...Please keep in mind - like I said in my previous post - if you want to optimize your ECU tune for a setup other than pure stock, then you have two choices. Buy ST software for a couple hundred bucks and customize your ECU tune by yourself - if your wise enough. Or take your car to a qualified Cobb ProTuner and get an optimized map from a dyno tune. ...
[/quote]

thanks

but if COBB comes back and says.
-Here are Stage 1 maps for Stock
-Here are Stage 2 maps if you have a Mazda performance accesory (CAI and CB-exhust).

that would totally rock!

and whoa - AP 2.0 is DEADLY!

http://www.hspn.tv/?videoid=71&catid=16
[/quote]

Thanks for the link NoobInACan, I just hope that the MS3 AP has all those features!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
708 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
[quote author=kokemon23 link=topic=67470.msg1165038#msg1165038 date=1169588740]

Thanks for the link NoobInACan, I just hope that the MS3 AP has all those features!!
[/quote]

I can assure you that it will. 100% positively certain.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,979 Posts
[quote author=NoobInACan link=topic=67470.msg1164862#msg1164862 date=1169584236]
[quote author=ZooZoom link=topic=67470.msg1164783#msg1164783 date=1169582373]
...Please keep in mind - like I said in my previous post - if you want to optimize your ECU tune for a setup other than pure stock, then you have two choices. Buy ST software for a couple hundred bucks and customize your ECU tune by yourself - if your wise enough. Or take your car to a qualified Cobb ProTuner and get an optimized map from a dyno tune. ...
[/quote]

thanks

but if COBB comes back and says.
-Here are Stage 1 maps for Stock
-Here are Stage 2 maps if you have a Mazda performance accesory (CAI and CB-exhust).

that would totally rock!

and whoa - AP 2.0 is DEADLY!

http://www.hspn.tv/?videoid=71&catid=16
[/quote]

Not quite.

As far as subies went... If you had a higher flowing intake filter, an uppipe, and silicon hoses, they would all fall under STAGE 1 parameters.

Stage 2 encompassed ALL MAKES AND MODELS of Downpipes+Catback exhausts other than the resrtictive factory one.

In all honesty, every CAI will perform similar. I dont care if one dyno shows more than the other. It could be a difference in the car, or the dyno itself. There is a margin of error that I really dont care to get into right now, but a 3 inch unrestricted inlet is a fucking 3 inch unrestricted inlet whether it says AEM, CP-E, MAZDASPEED or COBB on it... Doesnt matter. And those of you flipping through your dyno sheets, dont bother, Im not buying it. Unless its a difference in flow rate of the FILTER ITSELF, then you have ABSOLUTELY no difference.

As far as Downpipes go. Again, unless youre arguing bellmouth vs Divorced Wastegate, theres no REAL difference. And a high flow catted one will produce the same peak figures as catless, MAYBE at a 1 hp loss at lower RPM.

The biggest difference are in catback exhausts as the muffler/resonators may cause the most difference between products... If you go with a straight through muffler design, you will yield less backpressure and good power figures... If you go with a quiter, actual chambered design, you may miss some ponies in the lower RPM, however, the peak figures will most likely be close.

Guys, products need to be viewed subjectively. Dont look at the name. Look at the design, then find out if they fit will, then find out if it fits your budget, then make your decision accordingly.

I know of guys who chose an AEM intake over a PERRIN, just because AEM listed a higher dyno-tested gain. And bought an HKS instead of a COBB exhaust because HKS says itll gain THIS much... Then the dude with the parts that supposedly will put out less power is dyno-ing even better than his car, ON THE SAME DYNO. Its all about YOUR CAR. Some are just a smidge more powerful than others. Products are products. Only reason why you see gains on CAI's is because the inlets are HUGE compared to the factory ones... and generally the factory ones contain ribber/accordian like bends that cause turbulence and restrice/inhibit smooth airflow. ANY CAI will give you great gains in that scenario. Any Downpipe w or without high flow cat, will be a HIGH improvement in removing the VERY restrictive, narrow, horribly catted factory downpipe. And ANY aftermarket exhaust will be a huge gain over the stock restrictive unit that has again narrow piping, crushed bends, and a restrictive muffler and cat.

Get the piece that fits your budget, fits the car well, and doesnt cause problems... If youre torn between two similar quality exhausts, get the one you like the sound of more.

No need to get headaches over what part proves to have "THAT" much more power. Its marketing. Nothing else.



--

Bleh sorry bout that... hopefully some will appreciate the experienced insight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
283 Posts
http://www.hspn.tv/?videoid=71&catid=16
[/quote]

Not quite.

As far as subies went... If you had a higher flowing intake filter, an uppipe, and silicon hoses, they would all fall under STAGE 1 parameters.

Stage 2 encompassed ALL MAKES AND MODELS of Downpipes+Catback exhausts other than the resrtictive factory one.

In all honesty, every CAI will perform similar. I dont care if one dyno shows more than the other. It could be a difference in the car, or the dyno itself. There is a margin of error that I really dont care to get into right now, but a 3 inch unrestricted inlet is a fucking 3 inch unrestricted inlet whether it says AEM, CP-E, MAZDASPEED or COBB on it... Doesnt matter. And those of you flipping through your dyno sheets, dont bother, Im not buying it. Unless its a difference in flow rate of the FILTER ITSELF, then you have ABSOLUTELY no difference.

As far as Downpipes go. Again, unless youre arguing bellmouth vs Divorced Wastegate, theres no REAL difference. And a high flow catted one will produce the same peak figures as catless, MAYBE at a 1 hp loss at lower RPM.

The biggest difference are in catback exhausts as the muffler/resonators may cause the most difference between products... If you go with a straight through muffler design, you will yield less backpressure and good power figures... If you go with a quiter, actual chambered design, you may miss some ponies in the lower RPM, however, the peak figures will most likely be close.

Guys, products need to be viewed subjectively. Dont look at the name. Look at the design, then find out if they fit will, then find out if it fits your budget, then make your decision accordingly.

I know of guys who chose an AEM intake over a PERRIN, just because AEM listed a higher dyno-tested gain. And bought an HKS instead of a COBB exhaust because HKS says itll gain THIS much... Then the dude with the parts that supposedly will put out less power is dyno-ing even better than his car, ON THE SAME DYNO. Its all about YOUR CAR. Some are just a smidge more powerful than others. Products are products. Only reason why you see gains on CAI's is because the inlets are HUGE compared to the factory ones... and generally the factory ones contain ribber/accordian like bends that cause turbulence and restrice/inhibit smooth airflow. ANY CAI will give you great gains in that scenario. Any Downpipe w or without high flow cat, will be a HIGH improvement in removing the VERY restrictive, narrow, horribly catted factory downpipe. And ANY aftermarket exhaust will be a huge gain over the stock restrictive unit that has again narrow piping, crushed bends, and a restrictive muffler and cat.

Get the piece that fits your budget, fits the car well, and doesnt cause problems... If youre torn between two similar quality exhausts, get the one you like the sound of more.

No need to get headaches over what part proves to have "THAT" much more power. Its marketing. Nothing else.



--

Bleh sorry bout that... hopefully some will appreciate the experienced insight.
[/quote]

^^^
+1

Names aren't always what you should go by, unless they made a really bad name for themselves. As long as the parts have simular specs and achieve the same goal, they should be almost identical.... After that tuning comes into play.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,148 Posts
To move the discussion away from the Xede thread, does anybody have credible handle on this question: exactly how stealthy is it?

If you flash it back to the original map and "unmarry" it, does the dealer have access to the date you returned it to stock?

Personally, I don't see a need to get into the likelihood of a tech noting a different date or whether you could explain away a more recent download date than is shown on their records, or any of that. Many people have already said that it is unlikely a tech would notice/act on this info and I'm inclined to agree. As far as explaining it away, I think that's only gonna work if there is no related warranty issue and you have a friendly dealer. But those issues deal with how much risk, when I think people want to know if there is any risk of a dealer having access to the download date.
 
1 - 20 of 68 Posts
Top