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Awesome article...didn't really see any downside for the car...more like the author had to choose a downside and it wasn't much of an argument....IMO a quieter cabin and less peakiness feel are a plus :D .
 

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Exactly, this article's quasi-bitching about the 3's refinement, which I see as a plus.

Overall I think it's a pretty positive review
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Agreed also,

I wanted something sporty and fun to drive but with some refinement as well.

I was very impressed with the balance Mazda acheived with the 3.
 

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Car and Driver tend to have weird critiques about their cars...
I think it's because they've been testing too many Mercedes and BMWs and 70k Acuras. ;)
 

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I understand what C&D is trying to say with regard to the negative aspect of refinement. Of course everyone loves refinement ... nobody is going to argue against refining a redesigned car. You guys are missing the boat here. They aren't saying that the 3 is bad, only that with progress comes the loss of what we were formerly used to, and change isn't ever easy.

They mean to imply, and I for one agree (having driven both the Protege and the 3) that the refinement has taken away the spritely and zippy nature of the old Protege. The 3 is bigger and heavier, and it is impossible to hide that bulk and weight ... but there is no doubt that the 3 does so excellently. Nevertheless, it has, as they said, "grown up". The handling is still there and it still exhibits the qualities we expect it to, but it is still heftier than the Protege. That is not a bad thing, but I understand exactly why they missed the lighter, "less refined" feel of the former Protege. It simply wasn't as bulky and quiet as the 3, and that has a certain lasting appeal that the 3 has sacrificed in order to become bigger and better.
 

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I went to the school periodical room today to read the C&D article. I don't know why... since it was the same exact one as on the net. I guess it was just nice to have my fix of Mz3 during school.
 

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anamnesis said:
I understand what C&D is trying to say with regard to the negative aspect of refinement. Of course everyone loves refinement ... nobody is going to argue against refining a redesigned car. You guys are missing the boat here. They aren't saying that the 3 is bad, only that with progress comes the loss of what we were formerly used to, and change isn't ever easy.

They mean to imply, and I for one agree (having driven both the Protege and the 3) that the refinement has taken away the spritely and zippy nature of the old Protege. The 3 is bigger and heavier, and it is impossible to hide that bulk and weight ... but there is no doubt that the 3 does so excellently. Nevertheless, it has, as they said, "grown up". The handling is still there and it still exhibits the qualities we expect it to, but it is still heftier than the Protege. That is not a bad thing, but I understand exactly why they missed the lighter, "less refined" feel of the former Protege. It simply wasn't as bulky and quiet as the 3, and that has a certain lasting appeal that the 3 has sacrificed in order to become bigger and better.
I also understand what they (C&D) were trying to say unfortunately they did not say it well.

The 3rd gen Protege just has a special something that overcomes it's hapless motor. You can fling it, flog, and generally just throw it around with abandon. Many 1st gen Miata purists never could deal with the minor changes that came to the Miata with the second gen cars which were faster, smoother, and handled better, but which arguably were not as tossable or playfull due to the extra weight and higher limits before it would slide.

The playfulness of the Protege is not something that most drivers would have ever have explored. I agree it is gone to some degree with the 3, but C&D did have an optioned out car. I would bet they would have found the 3s sedan with a manual and no extras a little closer to the Protege in that sling it around factor. Besides the 17" wheels alone are going to make the 3 much more planted than a typical Protege sedan.

The 3rd gen Protege is a great car with a weak engine, badly in need of an LSD and even with its limited power, it generates excessive torque steer. I have both in the drive way. There is no question which one I am going to drive if I can. But I still find the Protege an entertaining ride.
 

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whats up with the street start

ACCELERATION (Seconds)
Zero to 30 mph: 2.3
40 mph: 3.9
50 mph: 5.5
60 mph: 7.4
70 mph: 10.2
80 mph: 13.1
90 mph: 17.4
100 mph: 22.8
110 mph: 30.1
Street start, 5-60 mph: 8.6
Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph: 11.7
50-70 mph: 11.7
Standing 1/4-mile: 16.0 sec @ 87 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 118 mph
could anyone tell my why the streetstart would be slower than the 0-60 ???
maybe the numbers are off?
 

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could anyone tell my why the streetstart would be slower than the 0-60 ???
Because C&D revs the engine up there before launching the car at stand-still, and the engine is working around the redline 90% of the time. On the other hand, they have to rev smoothly with street-start.

Personally I don't care about this way of doing 0-60 mph at all.
 

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bluong1 said:
could anyone tell my why the streetstart would be slower than the 0-60 ???
Because C&D revs the engine up there before launching the car at stand-still, and the engine is working around the redline 90% of the time. On the other hand, they have to rev smoothly with street-start.

Personally I don't care about this way of doing 0-60 mph at all.

Car and Driver does not rev the car up at all when doing the street start (5mph-6- test) Heres how it happens:

1. Push the clutch in
2.put the shifter in first
3.gently apply gas while releasing clutch
4. let out clutch completely---
5.then at 5mph---floor it and run through the gears to 60mph.

(same with an auto---just go from a 5mph roll)

All cars get a slower time when using this method. To get max accleration times a good launch must happen. A little tire spin and engine revs will get the car moving into the heart of the powerband faster.

There is still the regular 0-60mph tests. What a street start does is measure how strong an engine is down low--without resorting to drag stip stlye launches.
 

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Re: whats up with the street start

vulgor said:
could anyone tell my why the streetstart would be slower than the 0-60 ???
...thats the case in 99% of vehicles
 

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I just wished 3 handled same as protege. Oh well... It's more confortable than protege, so I guess thats the reason why they didnt put any tight suspensions.
 

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Haris said:
I just wished 3 handled same as protege. Oh well... It's more confortable than protege, so I guess thats the reason why they didnt put any tight suspensions.
but spec-wise it does handle better than the protege... skid pad, braking, acceleration etc... it just FEELS like it doesnt handle as well because it goes about its thing so much smoother and more refined.
 

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Car and Driver does not rev the car up at all when doing the street start (5mph-6- test) Heres how it happens:

1. Push the clutch in
2.put the shifter in first
3.gently apply gas while releasing clutch
4. let out clutch completely---
5.then at 5mph---floor it and run through the gears to 60mph.
This is the procedure for the 5mph start, he was describing the difference between that procedure and what they do for the 0-60mph which they do rev the engine into its peak torque range at launch. That is why they have 2 tests, one to see what it does when launched, and the other to see what the engine does under standard operating conditions.
 

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Yeah it is .10 better in skidpad than the outgoing Protege in handing performance and it's faster so slalom scores should be better too. I can say from first hand experience that my 3 handles much nicer and flatter than my Pro5 did, I'm able to push it harder through offramps and the like without a doubt.
 
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