[XCNuse]

A few weekends ago I installed cain's phenolic spacer but obviously had a leak somehow because of it as my idle AFR was around 18:1

Thus after attempting that, removed it, and have since had a light issue where apparently I've got a CEL to lean at idle, but I'm not running that lean .. I believe it's still a leak issue somewhere.

Anyways I want to try reinstalling that thermal gasket but unsure how to prevent any leaks..

I assume gasket maker silicon?

No one has really mentioned it that I can find on this forum; either that or somehow no one has had any issues with this...

 

[adumbrille]

When I bought mine from him, he said to put gray gasket maker on both sides of it.

 

[XCNuse]

I was never informed

Do you still also have your OEM gaskets on your weaponr?
(as in your OEM gaskets that were on the plastic intake manifold; as well as the silicon?)

 

[adumbrille]

I actually sold mine to austin and have a weaponr thermo gasket instead. Now that I think about it, he said just use it on the side that faces the block, cause those oring gaskets shouldn't leak once they're torqued down.

But the weaponr gasket is smooth and the phenolic one was kinda pores, so I could see it leaking a bit. I don't have any on mine currently.

 

[XCNuse]

I landed up with it

problem is nothing really holds them in place, so I can't get the gaskets to stay, they just.. will drop haha.

I.. just don't think I need them if I'm going to run silicon; isn't that kind of the purpose of the stuff?

I just hope I don't have issues... again! Tired of it!

Funny thing is, my ECU is reading 14.7:1 but my UEGO is reading 15.2:1 and I'm getting that lean at idle code that I've never had before (even when I was running 18:1 at idle I didn't get it.. wtf???)

Worst comes to worst I'll... take it off... again lol

Thanks for the tips sir

 

[adumbrille]

I figured you might have ended up with it. I never used it, and just sat on it for a year or so.

The gaskets fall out of the grooves on the manifold? That's weird, maybe you need new ones.

The ECU is more accurate then the UEGO usually. Where is yours placed? IDK why you bought one when you can just tap into the factory wideband and read that one.

Has it always read .5 leaner then your factory sensor? If not maybe the primary is going bad.

Weird. Step one is to definitely make sure it's sealing, then see if that changed the readings. I suppose you could use the sealer on both sides, but it takes like a day to cure keep in mind.

 

[adumbrille]

Oh and check you LTFT, if you're running lean the computer should be adding fuel to compensate.

 

[XCNuse]

No idea what my LTFT should read; I.. don't think I've actually watched it.

The UEGO is directly hind the secondary o2
It was a nice addition because I could quickly watch them, and disable watching my ECU ones and watch anything else "more important" but I've just been comparing them side by side; I've no idea if it has always read as high as it does, I know always seemed a touch high but would usually land up in the right spot more often than now so unsure.

I mean as far as running lean goes.. I've no idea because literally at idle my ECU is reading 14.7:1, but I'm still getting the CEL from it..
Unlike the first time I put on the gasket my ECU was reading 18:1 at idle.. but no "to lean at idle" code (figure that one out right????)

As for those gaskets I was thinking you meant put them between the block and the spacer (no grooves to hold it) lol, I get what you mean.

After we pulled out the gasket it looked like I was leaking between #s 3&4... the most (at least since it was actually visible), could see a touch of oil staining... seemed like a strange place to leak.. as opposed to out the top or bottom or side or whatever; it was into a hole in the block lol..

 

[calgarymazda3]

I'm not following you guys.. Cain's IM phenolic spacer??

Phenolic is very hard composite plastic material. Very commonly used for aluminum intakes for heat insulation. Gaskets are very much needed for phenolic spacers.
There would be no purpose on using one for the stock plastic Mazda IM.

Or is it made of that softer, usually white plastic insulation material?
Normally, gaskets aren't needed for these.

Generally, for the intake tract, you don't want to use any gasket sealer as it may squeeze out inhibiting air flow. Dry gaskets are best on the intake side.
On the exhaust side, any gasket sealer squeezing out will burn off quickly.

 

[adumbrille]

Woah there turbo. We both have metal intake manifolds....hence why we both have heat spacers to dissipate the heat.

Cain was a member on here with a turbo'd 3, nitrous as well and a water to air intercooler. Best build I've ever seen. He made a few custom phenolic spacers and sold them to other people with metal intake manifolds.

And also I agree with only using it on the block side of the spacer, which is why I corrected myself above.

I'm not following you guys.. Cain's IM phenolic spacer??

Phenolic is very hard composite plastic material. Very commonly used for aluminum intakes for heat insulation. Gaskets are very much needed for phenolic spacers.
There would be no purpose on using one for the stock plastic Mazda IM.

Or is it made of that softer, usually white plastic insulation material?
Normally, gaskets aren't needed for these.

Generally, for the intake tract, you don't want to use any gasket sealer as it may squeeze out inhibiting air flow. Dry gaskets are best on the intake side.
On the exhaust side, any gasket sealer squeezing out will burn off quickly.

 

[adumbrille]

No idea what my LTFT should read; I.. don't think I've actually watched it.

I mean as far as running lean goes.. I've no idea because literally at idle my ECU is reading 14.7:1, but I'm still getting the CEL from it..
Unlike the first time I put on the gasket my ECU was reading 18:1 at idle.. but no "to lean at idle" code (figure that one out right????)
lol..

Usually if you unplug the negative battery and are running a buttload 'o mods, the ecu will run lean for the first minute or two while it's calculating the fuel trims, which bring it back down to 14.7. So that's probably what happened. It wouldn't pop a code if you ran lean for a few minutes.

Also you can be lean at idle and still run 14.7. If you're lean the ECU will add fuel up to 20% to compensate the condition, but if you get close to the 20% mark it will pop the lean code cause it's almost maxed out and can't fix the condition anymore. Sorta like injectors maxing out, but in this case it's the ecu not being able to correct the lean condition anymore.

So that's why I was saying take a look at your LTFT and see how high is it. Mine runs 10-15% added fuel daily and I don't pop a code.

It's either that or you have a leak like we said.

 

[XCNuse]

I'll have to reset the ECU as well but we got silicon on it, got the spacer on it, seems to not be leaking miserably as it was before without silicon.
Just ran it for a minute but so far it seems okay.

But yeah, silicon is curing so I guess we'll find out tomorrow how it went!

Thanks for the info good sir!

 

[calgarymazda3]

Woah there turbo. We both have metal intake manifolds....hence why we both have heat spacers to dissipate the heat.

Cain was a member on here with a turbo'd 3, nitrous as well and a water to air intercooler. Best build I've ever seen. He made a few custom phenolic spacers and sold them to other people with metal intake manifolds.

And also I agree with only using it on the block side of the spacer, which is why I corrected myself above.

LOL, some of us haven't been on this forum for years nor can I read anyone's minds.

 

[XCNuse]

haha no worries.

Something interesting I didn't hadn't mentioned and I *HOPE* was the cause for the previous issues... as it turned out, the gaskets that came with the IM ... turned out to not be gaskets at all LOL!

At first I hadn't noticed it (wasn't exactly looking insanely close), but I noticed yesterday when I had a few buds over helping put it all back together (always easy when you have an extra set of hands or two), but after we pulled it off and out entirely to clean up the whole system, my buddy that was cleaning the face of the IM pulled out the gaskets and pointed out to me one.. was entirely broken in half with about a half inch hole in the bottom of it.

Once we got everything cleaned up before putting silicon on it I took a closer look and it turned out those gaskets were just perfectly cleaned up silicon gasket maker gaskets.

After I got parts cleaner on one it became very obvious; as when I first got it they appeared black and looked like rubber seals.. once I cleaned it up it was very obvious they were gray and snapped just like silicon lol

thought it was kinda funny.

But.. waiting on this cruddy weather to pass so I can go take a short drive and make sure everything is running fine but after a 5 minute startup and run yesterday after we put it together everything seemed.. "normal" in the sense nothing was very wrong lol

Haven't reset ECU but will certainly do that before I go for a quick drive.

 

[adumbrille]

So do you have your OEM ones from your plastic manifold?

 

[XCNuse]

yeah, they aren't on the car though, they're sitting behind me lol

The EGR one is on the car though.

But since everything is in good running condition I think I'm good.. I should be at least; definitely no leaks, definitely seems to be running well.

 

[adumbrille]

Lean code go away?

 

[XCNuse]

Drove it for only like 15 or 20 minutes or so (it's been crazy windy and freezing today thanks to this stupid hurricane that's nowhere near)

So I drove with windows down in the 50 degrees so I could listen to my car and it sounded perfectly normal, but I was freezing after 15 minutes so headed back home lol

But yeah, actually in that short drive I got zero codes, neither lean nor from my o2 sensors ... only time will tell!

I know I'll get an o2 sensor code eventually, but that's normal.

Going to fill up the car tomorrow with fuel, hopefully won't have the stuttering issues I used to have.. hopefully I can sort out whatever is wrong with that misfire problem but I want that gone as well but still can't seem to find the cause.

I'll keep ya updated!

 

[chris22]

Hey guys, haven't been on here in a while. So Nuse, with that phenolic spacer, does that extend the length of the runners? Which in turn, shifts the powerband down a bit. Because I know with my godspeed, the gains are very up at the top, at redline pretty much. Hmmm..... that gets me thinking, I have a machinist that made me a TB adapter and Block off plate for that manifold. i wonder if he could make a thermal IM spacer. What would be the ideal material to use for that?

 

[XCNuse]

Phenolic material

No really that's what it's called.
Cain's spacer is half inch thick material. There are a few types of the stuff but his is black and looks like it's laminated layers on the side of this stuff (think laminated wood), and it's got a hard plasticky feel but appears soft.

I texted him earlier this summer.. Guess I could have texted him again lol; but he said he quit making them because he's had a hard time finding the material again.

If you go into the new dyno section (on iPhone can't post the link), but I think it's visible on main forum page.
But go to the dyno section and I have my comparison of the before / after cosworth intake manifold.

I will definitely have to dyno my car again and see what exactly it did, because it does feel a little different.