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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

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I think that, for those prices, you are getting a hell of a deal. I would say that the quality of your decisions is directly based upon each person. Sure, the techies can break down the speaker/amp choices but all of those will provide you with a better sounding system that should last awhile.

A buddy of mine bought the dreaded Dual brand speakers and, for 45 bucks, they really aren't that bad. Plus they have a blue LED built in.

Myself, I am saving to put in my system. I am using a Kenwood Exceleon KDC-X790 HU, 2-10" JL Audio subs, a 2 and 4 channel Kenwood amp and am going to get the 6x8 CSi JL Audio Components and Coaxials.

Good luck and post pics!
 

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grrr. i hate when PDFs cause firefox to crash. Had a really good reply typed up- now you just get the simplified version. lol

Front components: good speakers, but your only utilizing 1/2 their power with your selected amp
Rears have a little bit less than grand Signal / noise (efficiency) though theyve got some nice crossovers (based on the 6dB slope). These will be overpowered by your selected amp.
Your full range amp- looks good- SoundStream is great stuff - 96dB S/N ratio- good stuff.

Sub: Pretty standard stuff here. MBQuart are a reputable brand with good consumer support.
Sub Amp: cruddy S/N Ratio @ 80dB- also dosnt list the frequency response of the amp; definately something to know. Check out info on the LPF as well- my amp lists an 18db HPF and a 12dB LPF - my guess is theyve opted only to list the better slope (12dB) even though it may vary for the LPF and HPF.

I didn't even look at prices as I perused so you're getting my opinion based on the specs alone.
 

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No head unit, so I guess you'll be using LOCs for the new amps? If you're doing the install, get the LOCs at davidnavone.com, he makes some great stuff. While you're there, check out the iPod adapters. Don't skimp on the interconnects and wiring either. If you decide to get a beefier amp, you may want to upgrade the speaker wiring too. I wouldn't want to run 150 W on stock wiring.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
[quote author=Zorminster link=topic=68153.msg1175470#msg1175470 date=1170120047]
grrr. i hate when PDFs cause firefox to crash. Had a really good reply typed up- now you just get the simplified version. lol

Front components: good speakers, but your only utilizing 1/2 their power with your selected amp
Rears have a little bit less than grand Signal / noise (efficiency) though theyve got some nice crossovers (based on the 6dB slope). These will be overpowered by your selected amp.
Your full range amp- looks good- SoundStream is great stuff - 96dB S/N ratio- good stuff.

Sub: Pretty standard stuff here. MBQuart are a reputable brand with good consumer support.
Sub Amp: cruddy S/N Ratio @ 80dB- also dosnt list the frequency response of the amp; definately something to know. Check out info on the LPF as well- my amp lists an 18db HPF and a 12dB LPF - my guess is theyve opted only to list the better slope (12dB) even though it may vary for the LPF and HPF.

I didn't even look at prices as I perused so you're getting my opinion based on the specs alone.
[/quote]

Thanks for the reply, you seem to really know your sh**. Here are my concerns...the front speakers I got from a friend for $50 (stupid on his part), so I wanted something equally as nice for the rear doors but didnt want to spend $400...have any suggestions? I guess the rear fill isnt as important, but like you said I don't want to underpower the fronts and overpower the rears. I am going purely for sound quality, not concerned with SPL. Maybe I should just forego the sub for now and focus on better speakers and wires/cables.
 

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An argument you're about to hear now that you've said you're after SQ:

No rears = better SQ.

Now, i used to disagree. I used to REALLY like my rear fill. But after hearing this argument a ton of times, i decided to check it out- a full frontal fade for 2 days and I was sold. Having your sound all come from the front; for me at least; is DEFINATELY where its at. Now, since im a nice guy and like to let my buddies hear the music too heres my suggestion:

Focus on your fronts. Thats a REALLY nice amp your looking at, but its just not going to do a great job for you. You will either underpower by 60, or overpower by 20. Honestly, since you've already got the speakers I would look for a different amp. Your gunna want something to send 120-140w x 2 @ 4 ohms. Amp up your front speakers with this sucker and fade all the way forward. Leave your rear stocks attached to the stock headunit. With it faded forward, youll hear nothing from the back, but when youve got buddies back there, add a little fade to the rear and they'll have some tunes too.

The Caveat: TEST THIS OUT FOR YOURSELF! Its really personal preference if you like it really crisp (full frontal) or if you like the added volume and slight muffle from having some rears. Play around with it a few different ways and see what you like, then set your system up according to that.

If you find that you REALLY like some rear fill, then just shop around for some coaxials for the rear. Lots of good brands, and really value is key for these since fronts are what make the most difference in quality.

Honestly, I wouldnt sacrifice sub for better rears.


And thanks for the compliment, but there are quite a few on here that know far, far, far more than myself. Automaticman and Jeba come to mind. Automaticman is an audio installer by profession and has helped me out many times.
 

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I always chime in about replacing the rears. Don't bother. Spend more on the fronts instead. Just turn the rear speakers off.

Oops! Someone already said that other than me. Kewl.

There is no need for expensive amps to get good sound. You can also select from a better front speaker that is more efficient than you choice but still sounds good. 80 watts per channel (RMS, not peak) would give plenty of overhead on most speakers. There are nice $100-150 amps that can do that just fine.

Save your money for a sub. You will need about $90 for the sub amp I just recommended in another post, about $50 for the box and $150 for a decent driver, plus about $100-$150 to install it. You do need lots of power for a sub, around 300 watts RMS, single channel.

The utter lack of information on the linked site does not really reflect well on these speakers. I don't know if they have a cast basket, what the tweeter type is, or even just how they spec the rather surprising 45 hz bottom end on these speakers. I would suspect that they are down to a pretty much inaudible -20 db at this point, and the actual 3db down point is more like 65 hz. They look like they have a cheap accordion cloth (or even paper) surround, rather than something better like foam or butyl rubber that permits more excursion and is more durable.

If you have actually heard these, and really like them, perhaps that trumps my caveats, but you should make sure you do listening tests rather than buy something online based on reputation or believe any hype, brand name, or kewl website graphics.
 

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FWIW: There is nothing wrong with overpowering comps by 20 watts rms. Actually, the quicker those Infinity comps fail, the faster you can get into some real speakers. I'm not kidding, Infinity comps are harsh harsh harsh, with very little midbass. This particular forum however, keeps recommending the brand for some reason beyond my grasp.

Soundstream used to make good stuff. The jury is still out on this year's models, but if they are like the prevous couple of years, I'd say stay away.

Don't bother with rear speakers if you plan on a sub. Save the money on better amps, subs, cables, etc.

Be sure to deaden your front doors at the very least. This will make a huge difference in the way the system sounds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Maybe I'll forget about the rear speakers, I've read about the destructive interference they can cause being out of phase...I'm usually the only one in the car anyway so leaving the rears out is a reasonable idea (and saves me some money). I'll definitely test it out first to see how I like it. So now for an amp to power the fronts...how do people feel about the profile amps? Geewhizbang, I think the bajas are the ones you recommended in another thread. They seem to have pretty good S/N ratio and the price is right. Also for mounting the amps I was thinking about putting them in the storage compartment under the hatch floor...is there going to be a heat issue with this? I'd rather not put them on the back of the seats cause I put them down to get my bike in and don't want them scratched.
 

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[quote author=Timmer412 link=topic=68153.msg1176596#msg1176596 date=1170175609]
Maybe I'll forget about the rear speakers, I've read about the destructive interference they can cause being out of phase...I'm usually the only one in the car anyway so leaving the rears out is a reasonable idea (and saves me some money). I'll definitely test it out first to see how I like it. So now for an amp to power the fronts...how do people feel about the profile amps? Geewhizbang, I think the bajas are the ones you recommended in another thread. They seem to have pretty good S/N ratio and the price is right. Also for mounting the amps I was thinking about putting them in the storage compartment under the hatch floor...is there going to be a heat issue with this? I'd rather not put them on the back of the seats cause I put them down to get my bike in and don't want them scratched.
[/quote]

I give Profile California Series a thumbs up from experience- stuck one in his sunfire and we've never had a problem with it. Its been a long time since i actually checked into specs though. They're definately right for the price.

As for under the hatch floor- pretty common spot I think, you're going to want to wire up a couple of little fans (computer fans or fans made to cool amps- called like cross-breeze or something i think) just to make sure that you're keeping them cool.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So here are my new ideas...

Amp for speakers:
http://item.express.ebay.com/Consum...onicsQQadnZCarQ20ElectronicsQQcmdZExpressItem

Subwoofer (10" SVC):
https://ssl.perfora.net/www.ficarau...shopdata/0030_SSD/product_overview.shopscript

Amp for subwoofer:
http://item.express.ebay.com/Consum...onicsQQadnZCarQ20ElectronicsQQcmdZExpressItem

Plus I'm going to add an Audiolink so I'll need a GLI for that. Also, I know everyone recommends Navone LOCs, but I really would rather not spend $90 for each amplifier. What would be the next best thing? Thank you again for all the replies.
 

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What speakers are you going to use up front? Everything else looks very good, as I have experience with the Profile woofer amp and am considering the other profile amp for my fronts.

The FI looks like an extremely good sub.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
[quote author=geewhizbang link=topic=68153.msg1177488#msg1177488 date=1170199266]
What speakers are you going to use up front? Everything else looks very good, as I have experience with the Profile woofer amp and am considering the other profile amp for my fronts.

The FI looks like an extremely good sub.
[/quote]

I'll be using the Image Dynamics CX64 components up front. From what I've seen on this site a lot of people are recommending this sub...they are hand made according to your specifications.

[quote author=Zorminster link=topic=68153.msg1177488#msg1177488 date=1170199266]
looks like 2 good amps; i cant locate a single voice coil subwoofer on that website though. period. all those are the page you linked are DVC.[/quote]

I guess I misunderstood the difference between the Dual 1 and Dual 2 options, looks like the Dual 1 has a lower resistance per coil than the Dual 2...so which to get?
 

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Those Fi subs have been getting rave reviews. But I've also heard they like power. That profile amp will be chugging awfully hard trying to put out even a clean 500 watts rms. If you decide to go with the fi sub, please do it justice by feeding it at least 750 watts rms. Also, don't just slap it in a pre-fab box. A huge part of how a system sounds is the overall attention to detail in the installation. Most pre-fab boxes I've seen in local stores were not designed with a beefy Fi SSD in mind.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
[quote author=El Ropo link=topic=68153.msg1178573#msg1178573 date=1170254150]
Those Fi subs have been getting rave reviews. But I've also heard they like power. That profile amp will be chugging awfully hard trying to put out even a clean 500 watts rms. If you decide to go with the fi sub, please do it justice by feeding it at least 750 watts rms. Also, don't just slap it in a pre-fab box. A huge part of how a system sounds is the overall attention to detail in the installation. Most pre-fab boxes I've seen in local stores were not designed with a beefy Fi SSD in mind.
[/quote]

I was planning to use this box:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-HGkCfnFu5tS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=044H6510SE&search=044h6510se

It is pre-fab but has 0.65 cubic feet which is within the specifications of the sub. Of course I won't use that stupid grille that would cover up the sweet Fi logo. As far as power, would I be better off bridging a 2-channel amp into the 2 ohm load for this sub?
 

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[quote author=Timmer412 link=topic=68153.msg1178630#msg1178630 date=1170257631]
As far as power, would I be better off bridging a 2-channel amp into the 2 ohm load for this sub?
[/quote]

You're going to pay A LOT for an amp that can bridge @ 2 ohms. Heres how it works: if an amp normaly operates @ 4 ohms, then it probably can handle 2 ohms / channel, and bridge to 4. Bridging vs nonbridge dosn't really matter- your looking for power output, regardless of how you get it (as far as I know- i could be wrong about bridge vs unbridged- someone correct me if i am). Also- even though you've got an 800 w RMS sub, dosn't mean you need to push 800 to it. Theres a range of powers that subs will operate at- If you go to this link then you can see the range graphically. It's not for your sub- so don't try and take that to be applicable; it simply conveys the idea. There really is a sweet spot for each sub, and it's usually quite a bit lower than the max. As you approach max power, you add more wear onto the sub. Notice for those I linked, they run 100-600 (bottom graphs) and the sweet-spot is around 300. So i would want to run between 300-450W on that particular sub. Im of the opinion, that 500W to that sub would be fine.

Ropo is right about one thing though- with profile, you aren't going to get a perfectly clean, 500wRMS. Im not sure how much loss profiles exhibit, but it should certainly be at least 425wRMS you get from it. Other brands like legacy or pyramid may advertise 1000W and give you 200.
 
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