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[quote author=moxfyre link=topic=172767.msg3831422#msg3831422 date=1287428396]
[quote author=GrifN link=topic=172767.msg3831089#msg3831089 date=1287409933]
When doing these online quotes, should this be for a car on the lot? I'm about to buy a 2011 Mazda 3s Sport Man HB, cash, for $19,550 OTD and the dealer is having to do a dealer trade to get it to his lot. I'm getting a couple more quotes online, just to make sure I'm not getting ripped off (or at least to make sure that everyone is ripping me off the same amount).[/quote]
You have a lot more negotiating leverage if you buy a car off the lot. As you can see, a bunch of us have been getting 2010 Mazda 3s Sport Man HB for just over $18k. In my case, I knew there were 5 on the lot at two local dealerships, and that they'd certainly be anxious to get rid of them this late in the year.
[/quote]

Yeah, I noticed that you guys were getting 2010s for just over $18k. In Georgia, we are getting 7% sales tax, which makes that $19,550 OTD quote = ~$18,275 before tax for a 2011 model. According to truecar.com, $18,275 (before tax) was considered to be right on the line between a good and great deal, so I figure $19,550 OTD is a pretty good deal.

Also, looking at Edmunds.com, it looked like the whole "request a quote" thing just sent the local dealers emails with my info, same as getting a quote on the dealers' sites. There was only 1 dealer that had the car I want (color, transmission, etc) on their lot, and I didn't enjoy going there at all when I just went to browse their inventory. The dealer that gave me a written quote of $19,550 OTD was going to be doing a dealer trade, so it sounded like I would be coming out "on top" (or as "on top" as a car buyer can be).
 

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Sorry for the caps but: THE END OF THE MONTH MATTERS. At a lot of dealerships that's when the sales figures for the month get totaled and the bonuses handed out to the salesmen. So if you go in a couple of weeks into the month and start talking to them, being fully prepared to say no a few times, they'll start to get desperate around the 25th because those bonuses are a lot and someone there will be willing to cut you a deal if it puts them over the top or if they are behind everyone else in sales and afraid of getting fired.

And never pay any paperwork fees. Just on the principle of it. Why the hell should you pay for their paperwork????
 

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I suggest checking Edmunds True Market Value (TMV), the lowest price from TrueCar.com and also check the price that CarsDirect shows for your specific make/model/options IN YOUR AREA (they all require a zip code for this purpose). TrueCar usually quotes the lowest price, in my recent experience. I would request quotes via all three sites and start from there.

If you already know the specific trim model, trim level, options and color you want, I suggest also running a search via Mazda's website for the cars that meet your specs - http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/vlStart.action
It allows you to search within 50, 100, 150, 200 or 250 miles of you zip code and then you can refine the results by trim level and transmission combination, after which you can filter by color. For the ones you find that meet your desired specs, request a quote from those dealers via the website!

I live in Atlanta, Georgia but ended up driving four hours to Knoxville, Tennessee to buy my 2006 Mazda3 s 5-door! There was only one of these in stock at an Atlanta dealership that was Titanium Gray with Black & Red cloth, 5-speed manual transmission and no other options. The dealer who had it wouldn't even got $500 off sticker! When I told them there was no way I'd pay that price, they said I should go somewhere else!!! The dealer in Knoxville saved me over $1500 in comparison and I plan to return to them for my next purchase!
 

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One thing to watch out for is your trade, especially if you're underwater on your current loan. If you have a lot of rollover and you finance through the dealer they'll try to convince you that it's a hard loan to get approved, and they'll use that as a reason to jack up the interest rate. Dealers are legally allowed to sell a loan at a higher rate - up to two points I think - than the bank approved so long as the buyer agrees to it.

Interest rates are the lowest that they've ever been. If they say that the can give you 7% then that means you probably approved for somewhere around 5% - ask them to show you the call back from the bank. If they say they don't know what you're talking about then ask them in plain english to show you the info from the bank that states the lowest rate you were approved for. They may say that the number they've given you is what you were approved for, which is technically true, but that doesn't mean it's the lowest rate that the bank approved. If they refuse, or still act like they don't know what you're talking about then walk out.

I have made this mistake more than once :(
 

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I would also say watch out for the number written on the paper in highlighter or marker. The salesman on my deal came back from speaking to the manager and said "Here's the best deal!" the number supposedly included the consideration from my trade-in, tax, etc...The reason I knew t was bullspit was that at 0% financing it was easy to figure out the numbers plus what I put down to see that they had added about $4000 in crap to the cost. This turned out to be a LOW value on my trade, so then there was less value there, plus somehow the rebates disappeared AND the agreed upon new car price had gone up $1000.

They kept coming out with this one total price on a sheet of white paper - I kept telling them two things - 1) I am not agreeing to anything until I see how they came up with that number on paper, the accounting step by steps if you will, to determine the number and 2) I kept saying "Look Brett, I am leaving here tonight in a car - either one of yours, or mine - but I will leave!" ... I also kept pushing myself out of the chair to stand. Ahhh the dramatics of it all!!

All said and done, got my 2010 Mazda 3 GT 6 spd for $20,450 plus tax and tags with 0% financing AND they figured in the rebates too - LOL
 

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I sold cars at a dodge/jeep dealership back before things went belly up (07-08) and yeah... theres A LOT to know when dealing with price

as someone mentioned earlier, the end of the month IS the best time to get a deal, both for individual salesman bonuses, or mfg kickbacks to the dealer

some other good points to know

-walk away... everyone says this, but actually try it next time youre serious about buying a car (if youre not in a rush)... any veteran car salesman will let you walk, but will call you back in a day or two asking you to come back, if you come back... it means he has you like a puppet. discuss the reason of youre coming back, dont let him convince you "because we can work out a better deal" ask what the deal is, put him on the spot. EVERY salesmans goal is to just get customers in, and sit them down. in an office. also, new salesmen will be reamed out by their managers when there customers walk, most quality car dealerships will try and involve a sales manager with every customer (both to keep an eye on the salesmen to see how they are doing, and to make the customer feel more important... good thing i guess).

-stand up, kind of funny, but you all know as soon as you get to the dealership they want some sort of information from you, and want you to sit down and discuss your needs/wants (called a 4-square... google it) take control, make him follow you, sure it seems rude, but are you trying to make friends, or get a car for the very best deal possible?

-dont involve a trade in until VERY last minute... EVER... tell them you will NOT trade your car if they are persistant... (say you want a 20k car, and your car fairly may be worth 5k... they will say theyll give you 7,000 and sell you the vehicle for 20k, however if you were to just BUY that car, they may be willing to sell it for 16k? at which point you involve your trade (AFTER getting the best possible cash price for the new one)... now they can only offer you 3k for your 5k car (assuming same deal)... which you need to argue it is worth more, which is doable (not easy, but will save you money).

-NEGOTIATE FINANCING!!!!!!!! why does nobody do this. I know in ct it is state law that a dealership can tack 2% on top of what banks say for themselves, other states is MUCH more (upwards of 8%)... do some research, when youre in financing and they say they can do 5.5%, say you'd only accept 4%... this is the best time to ask for things also, nearly 95% of the paperwork is already done, and you have no binding contract to ANYTHING... the ball is 100% in your court... but then again, if your a schlobo with a 495 credit score... just be happy there going to give you a car in the first place, if you know you're anywhere above 700, you have all the power at this stage.

also, fyi, invoice on most new cars is easily attainable through the internet these days, use that to your advantage, also used cars where I worked we generally went for 3-4k profit (on a 10-15k car, more on the pricier ones) this way you take off 1-2k, and still have 2k profit (which is about standard for any used car sale) if they try and prove to you what they own it for, just tell them it isnt your fault that they paid too much for the car, and when there willing to sell it at the cost you want, give you a call...

Theres more... if anyones trying to get some crazy deal pm me I can give you more tips... feel free to ask questions also.

Ive made a ton of money on some deals, and Ive given away a bunch of cars as well, dealt with nice guys and assholes. Certain things will work every time. Go in with a plan.

all in all, be reasonable, do your research, if you're reasonable to them, 90% of the time, they will be reasonable for you (talking about respectable dealerships, not corner shop "buy here pay here" spots haha.
 

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I would definitely use email to contact your dealer first. When I was searching for cars I was absolutely shocked at the haggle free prices I would get through a single email. It also gives you a great idea of how legit dealers are. If they dealer sends you nothing back but spam you know they are just gonna give you real life spam if you go to try to talk to them at the dealer.
 

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DON'T be afraid to walk away or call them out on their pricing. And when they call you back, tell them you've found other deals even if you haven't.

Don't walk into their office. Once you're seated, they got you where they want you. Do all your dealings in the lot or in the showroom.

NEVER pay the administration charges they are so easily waived it's not even funny.
 

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I sent out feeler emails to dealerships in a 200 mile radius to get "internet pricing" on a specific color and option package. Two dealerships tried to get me to call them. One emailed a copy of the invoice and said whatever I think is reasonable over that. Two close to me quoted below invoice. And one sent an auto response without ever responding.

I sent the two "below invoice" quotes back to the two that tried to get me to call them. One matched it, the other said I was lying because these cars are so hot right now and nobody would take a hit on one.

Granted I did my shopping the first two weeks of the month, I'm almost inclined to wait until the last week to see what else I can squeeze out...
 

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[quote author=AustinPhoenix link=topic=172767.msg3966754#msg3966754 date=1300454579]
I sent out feeler emails to dealerships in a 200 mile radius to get "internet pricing" on a specific color and option package. Two dealerships tried to get me to call them. One emailed a copy of the invoice and said whatever I think is reasonable over that. Two close to me quoted below invoice. And one sent an auto response without ever responding.

I sent the two "below invoice" quotes back to the two that tried to get me to call them. One matched it, the other said I was lying because these cars are so hot right now and nobody would take a hit on one.

Granted I did my shopping the first two weeks of the month, I'm almost inclined to wait until the last week to see what else I can squeeze out...
[/quote]


You also get a very good idea of how the dealers are going to treat you when you go in. The dealers that instantly gave me a reasonable quote treated me really good when I came in. On the other hand the dealers that refused to give a quote over email, constantly called my phone even though I specifically told them to talk to me vie email, and just generally spammed me with a bunch of crap well needless to say they aren't going to treat you well when you go to see them.
 

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When I bought my new car 2 weeks ago, I knew the price I wanted to pay, I knew what my trade was worth. So then I went to the delaers, wrote my offer, 5 of them wouldn't/couldn't match what I wanted. The 6th was $500 short of my bottom line. I left and went home. 15 minutes later he called me and said they would do the deal. I went back, got the car. right now Mazda Canada has 0% financing, couldn't beat that. I could have got $500 for paying cash but I can invest the cash and make more than $500 on the cash. So...when you walk and they dont follow you or call you, increase your offer by $200 and do the rounds again. They wont get pissed, they just want to sell you a car. Then when you get their lowest price you can be a real hard baller and negotiate the price of options when you sign on the dotted line, I know, I did it and I'm a 60 year old fart lol!!!
 

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[quote author=banjaboy link=topic=172767.msg3968834#msg3968834 date=1300679629]
When I bought my new car 2 weeks ago, I knew the price I wanted to pay, I knew what my trade was worth. So then I went to the delaers, wrote my offer, 5 of them wouldn't/couldn't match what I wanted. The 6th was $500 short of my bottom line. I left and went home. 15 minutes later he called me and said they would do the deal. I went back, got the car. right now Mazda Canada has 0% financing, couldn't beat that. I could have got $500 for paying cash but I can invest the cash and make more than $500 on the cash. So...when you walk and they dont follow you or call you, increase your offer by $200 and do the rounds again. They wont get pissed, they just want to sell you a car. Then when you get their lowest price you can be a real hard baller and negotiate the price of options when you sign on the dotted line, I know, I did it and I'm a 60 year old fart lol!!!
[/quote]

Definitely some good ideas on any negotiating. My Credit Union tried to get me to use a co-signer (which would mean another member) and I set a solid argument (they never asked for one on any other loan of equal or lesser amount) and then stated that each dealer offered to match the rate they gave me (2.9%). I told them all no because I wanted to do my business with my CU. I asked the Loan Approval Manager "Are you telling me that I need to reconsider their offer?" She got offline with me to reevaluate my application. I left the office and told them to call me.

As soon as I got on the road my phone rang. Full approval with better rates. :)
 

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There you go AustinPhoenix. Back in the day I was buying a house, 30 odd years ago, the rate was 13% no negotiating, thats true!!! Now we have some power to negotiate, you did a great job and definitely I think you played that deal right to the limit...Well done!!!!!
 

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[quote author=AustinPhoenix link=topic=172767.msg3968884#msg3968884 date=1300683795]
[quote author=banjaboy link=topic=172767.msg3968834#msg3968834 date=1300679629]
When I bought my new car 2 weeks ago, I knew the price I wanted to pay, I knew what my trade was worth. So then I went to the delaers, wrote my offer, 5 of them wouldn't/couldn't match what I wanted. The 6th was $500 short of my bottom line. I left and went home. 15 minutes later he called me and said they would do the deal. I went back, got the car. right now Mazda Canada has 0% financing, couldn't beat that. I could have got $500 for paying cash but I can invest the cash and make more than $500 on the cash. So...when you walk and they dont follow you or call you, increase your offer by $200 and do the rounds again. They wont get pissed, they just want to sell you a car. Then when you get their lowest price you can be a real hard baller and negotiate the price of options when you sign on the dotted line, I know, I did it and I'm a 60 year old fart lol!!!
[/quote]

Definitely some good ideas on any negotiating. My Credit Union tried to get me to use a co-signer (which would mean another member) and I set a solid argument (they never asked for one on any other loan of equal or lesser amount) and then stated that each dealer offered to match the rate they gave me (2.9%). I told them all no because I wanted to do my business with my CU. I asked the Loan Approval Manager "Are you telling me that I need to reconsider their offer?" She got offline with me to reevaluate my application. I left the office and told them to call me.

As soon as I got on the road my phone rang. Full approval with better rates. :)
[/quote]

Have you tried using TrueCar.com or a similar site that gives a guaranteed price then links you to the nearest dealers who will honor that price! It's worth a shot to see if you can beat the prices you've already seen...

Just curious, what body style, trim level and options are you looking for? :)
 

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The last new car we bought I used a broker. I told him the make, colour, options etc. He did the groundwork and we just went down and signed on the dotted line and offf we went. Also, there is a service where for $30 you pick 3 makes models, options. You punch in you zip code or postal code here in Canada. you then get 3 written reports stating what the dealer paid, all option prices, everything including standard mark up. I tried it and it was spot on. I guarantee you have it in the US because we usually copy good stuff from you guys lol!!! I just cant remember what its called. I think AustinPhoenix did great and got the best price and did it all on his own using his common sense, very impressed.
 

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[quote author=allfiredup link=topic=172767.msg3968992#msg3968992 date=1300710847]

Have you tried using TrueCar.com or a similar site that gives a guaranteed price then links you to the nearest dealers who will honor that price! It's worth a shot to see if you can beat the prices you've already seen...

Just curious, what body style, trim level and options are you looking for? :)
[/quote]

I'm looking at a 2011 Mazda3 Hatchback Grand Touring with the Tech Package. It sticker's for 26,440. The Invoice is around 24,5ish (I'll have to find it at work). My price is 22,750. I just wanted the push button start and heated seats. :)

@Banja - Brokers are illegal here in the States. Instead they call themselves "Leasing companies." Edmunds and TrueCar are very close to being spot on. When I sold cars in college, I compared the invoice on Edmunds to ours and it was almost exactly correct minus a dollar here or there. I've been in sales for a while and just buy the way I liked selling. Easy. Quick. I've been in sales for a long time. Even though I'm young, I know what I'm doing.

My advice for anybody that wants to buy a new car:
1. Do your homework on prices/interest rates/incentives/warranties before you get to the dealership. You'll want to know if it's a good deal if when they put numbers in front of you.
2. Know what your car will be (color, interior, options). If something new gets introduced to you like an option you didn't think you'd like but now you absolutely love it, don't buy that day, go home and do some research (you'll see why I say that in a bit). Don't get swallowed by the "Do you want black or just a dark color?" Bull shoot that they play. Stand your ground on the car you want. There are other dealers that will trade with your dealer so you get your car.
3. This is the most important part!!! Leave your emotions at the curb until everything adds up and you're finished signing the paperwork. Emotions are great, but dangerous if you have a good salesperson that smells your desire to get out of that 1992 Escort that only has 1st and 3rd gear and has a loose belt under the hood that screeches like a banshee when you start your car. Don't let your girlfriend or wife say, "I love these heated seats or sirius radio or blah blah" They'll use anything you or she says against you to stir up your emotions about how much you love the car. I did it all the time when I sold cars...I should know. Once the paperwork is signed, go grab your emotions and hug your car. Get really excited because it's yours and you didn't get jacked out of any money. :)
4. Zoom-zoom
 

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Good advice AustinPhoenix, thats weird brokers being illegal. They did a great jog bor me. I couldn't have done better on my own. The dealer I picked the car up from said it was a great deal. I agree with you about taking emotions out of it. Whichever Mazda3 you end up with you will love, I sure love mine.
 
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