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I guess this is more of an academic question than anything at the moment (it'll be a good while before I make this change...), but I'm curious if anyone here runs with 0W-30. I ask because I'm considering using the German Castrol synthetic for my 3 once I'm past my break-in, either at 5000 or 10000 miles. I bring this up because some people swear by 5W-30 and there have been claims that the engine runs smoother/quieter. I know a lot of people in colder climates also like to run 0W-20. I'm wondering if 0W-30 is the best of both worlds (and it's just been ignored) or if there are specific reasons why people don't use it. It seems to be highly regarded at BITOG.

Also, how likely am I to be hassled by the dealer if I do use it?

And before the naysayers chime in and tell me to search, I have. I haven't found much discussion specific to this oil.
 

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GC is a very thick 30-weight oil. It's probably not a good choice for our little NA 4-bangers. Besides, the 2.3L NA engine is very easy on oil. There's no need for something fancy like GC.

The manual recommends 5w20 so that's what I have always used in my 3 and always will. Plus, a Blackstone Lab test showed that the sample of Pennzoil Platinum 5w20 that I ran for 7,500 miles looked great and I could have even run it longer.

My recommendation: Stick to what the manual recommends and quit trying to out think the engineers that designed our engines! 5w20 is a proven formulation. Use it with confidence.
 

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Mike is right...20 wt is fine. A member of BITOG just posted a 10k run on Amsoil 0w20 with great results. That was on an engine still breaking in. I'm confident you'd easy get 10k out of Amsoil, maybe more.

Pennzoil Plat. is another superb choice, as is Mobil1.
 

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[quote author=lafmeche link=topic=138447.msg2983432#msg2983432 date=1236620109]
I guess this is more of an academic question than anything at the moment (it'll be a good while before I make this change...), but I'm curious if anyone here runs with 0W-30. I ask because I'm considering using the German Castrol synthetic for my 3 once I'm past my break-in, either at 5000 or 10000 miles. I bring this up because some people swear by 5W-30 and there have been claims that the engine runs smoother/quieter. I know a lot of people in colder climates also like to run 0W-20. I'm wondering if 0W-30 is the best of both worlds (and it's just been ignored) or if there are specific reasons why people don't use it. It seems to be highly regarded at BITOG.

Also, how likely am I to be hassled by the dealer if I do use it?

And before the naysayers chime in and tell me to search, I have. I haven't found much discussion specific to this oil.
[/quote]

Everybody has their own favorite formula...I would say go ahead and try some different weights out and see what works best for you. I was kind of skeptical about trying 5w30 but once I did I never went back. And I never will. The engine is definitely quieter and Im pretty sure it runs smoother, especially at idle.

Right now Im running pennzoil platinum. In my car its good for 10k which is the farthest Im taking it. Next Im taking the plunge and going to try Amsoil's 5w30 and see if I can get 15k out of it. My goal here is extended drain intervals. I drive 3000 miles a month and I was getting tired of changing dino oil every 6 weeks. Theres nothing wrong with good dino oil it just doesn't last very long.

OK my argument is getting off topic here...back to your question...so no I have never tried 0w-30 oil in my car. Although I do have a batch of mobil1's 0w-30 advanced fuel economy waiting to go in the wifes car, which normally calls for 5w-30. I just wanted to try it out and see what happens. I doubt we'll see any real improvement in fuel economy but hey why not. I'll let you know what happens.
 

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I'm using Supertech 0W-30. I've used 0W-20 in this car but I can get the 0W-30 for considerably cheaper. I use 5W-20 in the summer, but I'm not willing to use a 5W at -40C when 0W is readily available.

Since you're in a relatively warm climate, I'd recommend sticking with 5W-20 at least until the warranty period is finished. Some dealers may give you hassles on a warranty repair if you use something different. In terms of wear, your engine isn't going to care whether you run 0W-20 or 5W-50. GC is a great oil for turbos and extended intervals, but it's unnecessary for our engines and I don't think you should be running extended intervals while under warranty.
 

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i thought i heard another opinion that said car companies are recommending lower weight oil, not because it's better, but because it helps them to achieve the newer mileage requirements. said article stated that 20wt shears down to 10wt after 3-5k miles, which means it offers less protection as time passes.

just throwing that out there for debate... :dunno:
 

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John -

I've heard many say that 30-weight oil shears down to a 20 quite often, but nothing about 20-weight shearing. Not saying it's not true, but I've never once heard it.

Based on the UOA's out there, I don't see any reason to believe that 5w20 formulations are inferior in any way. In fact, it seems that most 5w20 UOA's look quite good.

I think the debate will continue for quite a while though :) .
 

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[quote author=mshu7 link=topic=138447.msg2984344#msg2984344 date=1236645214]
John -

I've heard many say that 30-weight oil shears down to a 20 quite often, but nothing about 20-weight shearing. Not saying it's not true, but I've never once heard it.

Based on the UOA's out there, I don't see any reason to believe that 5w20 formulations are inferior in any way. In fact, it seems that most 5w20 UOA's look quite good.

I think the debate will continue for quite a while though :) .
[/quote]

lol, i was thinking the same thing (could have been 30 - 20) and was gonna change it, but decided it was more the idea than the specific weights. 5-20w UOAs might look good because only conscientious new car owners submit samples...not people who drive beaters (imho).

i agree that oil analysis is the final word (for a given car), but not that many people get those to either confirm or deny if the performance is across the board with every car in every environment and driving condition (you may be very easy on your car, based on your general demeanor and car care ethics displayed in these forums)

in other words, if smokinAMD used your oil change interval, i doubt his results would come back as clean :p
 

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[quote author=John_in_the_LBC link=topic=138447.msg2984366#msg2984366 date=1236646238]
[quote author=mshu7 link=topic=138447.msg2984344#msg2984344 date=1236645214]
John -

I've heard many say that 30-weight oil shears down to a 20 quite often, but nothing about 20-weight shearing. Not saying it's not true, but I've never once heard it.

Based on the UOA's out there, I don't see any reason to believe that 5w20 formulations are inferior in any way. In fact, it seems that most 5w20 UOA's look quite good.

I think the debate will continue for quite a while though :) .
[/quote]

lol, i was thinking the same thing (could have been 30 - 20) and was gonna change it, but decided it was more the idea than the specific weights. 5-20w UOAs might look good because only conscientious new car owners submit samples...not people who drive beaters (imho).

i agree that oil analysis is the final word (for a given car), but not that many people get those to either confirm or deny if the performance is across the board with every car in every environment and driving condition (you may be very easy on your car, based on your general demeanor and car care ethics displayed in these forums)

in other words, if smokinAMD used your oil change interval, i doubt his results would come back as clean :p
[/quote]

LOL!!!

Actually, my wife drives our 3 most of the time. When I drive it though, I like to open it up a little :) .

The other factor about 5w20 UOA's is that most are coming out of newer cars since it's only been in the last few years that manufacturers have started recommending it, and people started using it.

As you said though, the only true test is a UOA on that specific vehicle.
 

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:lmao: i knew it! i don't think wifey's puttering about isn't likely to stress even the most basic dino oil.

(don't tell her i said that) :hide:
 

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Don't all oils shear down over use, regardless of starting weight? I wonder how Amsoil's sig. series does after driving the 35,000 miles they claim its good for?
 

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yes, i think so. the point is that the car manufacturers used to recommend mostly 30wt, knowing it shears down to 20wt, even using their conservative OCIs. So why the change to 20wt? Is it because 20wt protects just as well and doesn't shear, or is it to improve mileage figures (however slightly).?
 

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My understanding is that manufacturers' push for 20-weight is for fuel economy reasons.

I've been running Mobil 1 5w-20 since the car was new, about 40k ago. All of my UOA's have come back great, but I think I may give a 30-weight a shot next.
 

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[quote author=John_in_the_LBC link=topic=138447.msg2984272#msg2984272 date=1236643047]
i thought i heard another opinion that said car companies are recommending lower weight oil, not because it's better, but because it helps them to achieve the newer mileage requirements.[/quote]

I believe that 5W-20 was introduced entirely because of the incremental fuel economy improvement, but I've seen nothing to indicate that it sacrifices engine protection compared to heavier oils. We simply hit the point where 5W-20 oils are good enough that we can use them in many modern engines without adverse effects.
 

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[quote author=John_in_the_LBC link=topic=138447.msg2984420#msg2984420 date=1236648040]
:lmao: i knew it! i don't think wifey's puttering about isn't likely to stress even the most basic dino oil.

(don't tell her i said that) :hide:

[/quote]

LOL! No worries. I've already told her she drives like my grandma...hehe!
 

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My wife does not understand proper cold start procedures. I ask her, can you please let your car idle for 5 seconds after you start it. Ok whatever she says. Next morning I hear her in the garage. She jams it in reverse before the starter has released from the flywheel. Drives me freakin crazy. Which is part of the reason her car is getting 0w-30. It needs all the cold start help it can get.
 

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[quote author=stranger706 link=topic=138447.msg2985252#msg2985252 date=1236695070]
My wife does not understand proper cold start procedures. I ask her, can you please let your car idle for 5 seconds after you start it. Ok whatever she says. Next morning I hear her in the garage. She jams it in reverse before the starter has released from the flywheel. Drives me freakin crazy.
[/quote]

LOL!!! Oh the joys of woman drivers! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
[quote author=mshu7 link=topic=138447.msg2983627#msg2983627 date=1236626628]
quit trying to out think the engineers that designed our engines![/quote]
Oh, I'm sure 5w20 will protect the engine. I have no doubt about that. BUT, speaking as an engineer, I have to say that you shouldn't always blindly follow a manual's recommendations. No half decent engineer will knowingly/willingly allow bad instructions in a manual, but that doesn't mean they are the best instructions. That's especially true when regulatory bodies step in and set minimum requirements for you to meet. The more regulations, the harder it is to meet your goals, and the more likely it is that somebody's going to cut a corner or two to get there. This isn't a knock against Mazda's engineers (they seem to do a fantastic job), but I wonder how true the CAFE standard rumor is.

The main reason I'm considering 0w30 is because it might help with winter starts. Even if the temperature isn't at the bottom of the allowable range for 0w or 5w, that doesn't mean it won't flow easier. Like I said, though, I'm mostly asking because I think it's an interesting discussion. However, it does seem like most people have already made up their minds about what to use.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I will switch to a 30 weight oil (or at least try it out).
 

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If you're looking for superior engine protection, then GC 0W-30 is definetely the place to start. North American GF-4 5w-20 oils are all about fuel economy, while maintaining adequate engine protection. European manufacturers set vastly higher standards for the oils speced for their vehicles. Oils that meet the tough European specs such as Mercedes' MB 229.5 , as 0W-30 German Castrol Syntec and 0W-40 Mobil 1 do, have greatly improved resistance to sludge, piston deposits, oxidative thickening, and reduced engine wear.

Our GF-4 5w-20 oils are some pretty weak sauce in comparison, though we do get to enjoy an extra 0.5 mpg. Yay! :roll:

There was even a class action lawsuit recently where Mercedes owners succesfully sued Mercedes over the fact that Mercedes was not explicit enough in telling them that they MUST use ONLY MB 229.3 or MB 229.5 approved oils in their cars. American owners ran their cars on our weak North Amercan spec oils, and not surprisingly, sludge and engine break downs were the result.

Check out this link that shows how stringent various oil specs are. http://www.lubrizol.com/acea2008/RPintroduction.asp

Compare, for example, our North American GF-4 5W-20 spec against the Mercedes Benz MB 229.5 oil spec. Just a little eye opening, isn't it! :shock:

This oil spec comparison tool was created by Lubrizol, a leading additive manufacturer who sells additive packages to the major oil companies, so they know a thing or two about oil performance specs.

FYI- I have four quarts of German Castrol Syntec 0W-30 ready to go into my MZR 2.0 for my next oil change.
 

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[quote author=Artic Ice link=topic=138447.msg2993255#msg2993255 date=1236988474]
There was even a class action lawsuit recently where Mercedes owners succesfully sued Mercedes over the fact that Mercedes was not explicit enough in telling them that they MUST use ONLY MB 229.3 or MB 229.5 approved oils in their cars. American owners ran their cars on our weak North Amercan spec oils, and not surprisingly, sludge and engine break downs were the result.

Check out this link that shows how stringent various oil specs are. http://www.lubrizol.com/acea2008/RPintroduction.asp

Compare, for example, our North American GF-4 5W-20 spec against the Mercedes Benz MB 229.5 oil spec. Just a little eye opening, isn't it! :shock:[/quote]

Before my eyes can be opened, I need an explanation. It has a bunch of 0-10 ratings, but I can't find the reference for what anything means. In wear, for example, a ten means what wear rate compared to a 0? As far as I can tell, they might just be using this graph to shock you into buying more expensive oil.

It's not surprising that MB owners had problems running regular North American oils in 18,000 mile intervals. The ones with problems probably weren't even changing it at the one year mark, so that could be 18,000+ city miles! I'm really surprised that Mercedes didn't note the proper oil specification in the owner's manuals; or did the court just feel that people are too stupid to be expected to actually read something as complex as an owner's manual?
 
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