Mazda3 Forums banner
61 - 80 of 1,582 Posts
okay, so to all you people saying that this swap is easy and that you've done this a million times... For some people you'll still have to make an adapter for the 2.3 intake to 2.5 head. The top of the intake ports for the head or just a tad bit taller. That isn't just a drop in play so please do not spread such false information.
 
okay, so to all you people saying that this swap is easy and that you've done this a million times... For some people you'll still have to make an adapter for the 2.3 intake to 2.5 head. The top of the intake ports for the head or just a tad bit taller. That isn't just a drop in play so please do not spread such false information.
Post some pictures of it. How much is it off by? Which 2.5l engine did you get, from what type vehicle I mean.

I was hoping for more detailed discussion about this swap by the guys in the know as well. We all love our Gen 1s as well and this swap seems like an excellent way to keep them on the road. I plan on documenting my swap really well so I'll be able to answer questions hopefully once I get started.
 
I got the engine off of a 2011 ford fusion and I have a 2005 2.3. It's off by millimeters and I guess this problem is more than for just a few... I'll take some pictures when I can but it's in my buddy's shop (i live in an apartment complex :( )

http://www.fordfusionclub.com/showthread.php?p=9658337

I asked the OP on facebook, since he welcome questions, and never got a response, about the swap but he must of genuinely never of faced this problem. I messaged the mate on fusionclub and waiting for a response. Another member here pm'd me about how he made his own adapter but said selling to others might be a bit cost prohibitive so we'll see. If I get further word, then I'll update this thread because I like my 1st gen and I wan't others to keep em on the road too, seeing as I come from the e30 bmw crowd and we still keep finding ways to keep those 30 year old buckets on the road.
 
guys, this is a really simple swap, and infact could be called a bolt in on the Mazda3. we have done over 50 of them in the last few years since the 2.5 came out.

The real trick to this is that you need to make sure you use the correct sensors. Most change is you get the ford engine, or stay the same if the engine is mazda in origin.

On the early cars, it takes a bit of work to re calibrate the ecu to make decent power with the late, lower CR, larger displacement engine. And yes the displacement makes quite a bit of difference in the calibration.

BTW, its FAR EASIER to remove the engine and driveline IF you do it the factory way..............out the bottom
When you do the swap with a Fusion 2.3L (instead of the 2.5L) do you still have to do the calibrations? I'm curious if all of my issues have been related to that. (I've had 2 threads about my woes with the swap that I inherited) If so, how do I get my ecu calibrated -- is that what everyone calls "dyno'd"? lol.
 
I got the engine off of a 2011 ford fusion and I have a 2005 2.3. It's off by millimeters and I guess this problem is more than for just a few... I'll take some pictures when I can but it's in my buddy's shop (i live in an apartment complex :( )

http://www.fordfusionclub.com/showthread.php?p=9658337

I asked the OP on facebook, since he welcome questions, and never got a response, about the swap but he must of genuinely never of faced this problem. I messaged the mate on fusionclub and waiting for a response. Another member here pm'd me about how he made his own adapter but said selling to others might be a bit cost prohibitive so we'll see. If I get further word, then I'll update this thread because I like my 1st gen and I wan't others to keep em on the road too, seeing as I come from the e30 bmw crowd and we still keep finding ways to keep those 30 year old buckets on the road.
Some people have mentioned having to loosen the intake manifold and lifting it up to where it covers it completely. I've read that it barely fits a couple of time.
 
A "plate" and "proper tools" makes this beyond simple. That requires a cnc or 3d printer to make one. Since I'm without transportation to get to the shop till monday I'll try to figure out all these suggestions i've been getting here and through PM's so we can get a definitive answer to this problem. So far I've had school and work and I've been 'ubering' to work and biking to school and the shop is too out of the way for either.

Thanks for the input and im sorry if im coming off like a wanker, will report back.

edit: on the fusionclub forum the guy who made the plate responded back. $100 + shipping.

http://www.fordfusionclub.com/showthread.php?t=655122&page=2
 
^The fix for that itself is simple, you need a plate to go between the intake and head. The problem is without proper tools making that part isn't easy.
No one has said that they needed to make a plate to make it work. The OP of this thread didn't mention it neither did the Tim Labute blog.

This difference in some people reporting it leaking and some not may lie in either the specific 2.3 or 2.5 used. Maybe the earlier 2.3s have a slightly different intake manifold than the 2006+. Would need to look up OEM part numbers to make sure.

What would help is some pictures of you guy's intake manifold ports and intake ports for comparison.
 
I found a Mazda OEM parts supplier, they list the same part number for all first gen 2.3 intake manifolds regardless of year, even 2006+ after the camshaft change. It is part number L37313100E.

That being said, maybe some of the 2.5s have differently shaped ports depending on year or the exact donor vehicle.
 
I'm doing the swap right now and have the same issue with the larger intake ports on the 2.5 Fusion engine.

Here's what I'm doing that I think might work. I believe that if I can nudge the manifold up just a fraction of an inch, it will seal.

I smeared used motor oil on the rubber intake gaskets and then test fitted the manifold to the head. You can see how the gasket isn't making good contact with the head above the port. Easy to see why there are leaks. The gasket imprint on the bottom (below the port in the head and near the bottom of the picture) is well below the bottom of the port in the head so we have quite a bit of space to work with there.


This is another shot after a couple of modifications that will be described below. There's not much room to spare but the gasket is now making good contact on the head.


There are two small round plastic dowels or nubs on the lower part of the intake manifold, right under the ports. They go into holes right under the intake ports on the head and it looks like they are there to help align the manifold when installing it. What they also do though is keep the manifold from moving up slightly, so I used a hacksaw blade and a file to shave off the top half of the dowel (center of picture). It's possible that they could have been entirely cut off with the same effect.


Then I bought new intake bolts, but fully threaded bolts instead of the stock shanked ones. The shank is just a little larger diameter than the threaded part of the stock bolts but a little can be a lot when we're trying to move the manifold just a smidgen. The short bolts (there are 6 of them I believe) are 40mm long and the longer ones that go on the right side are 80mm. I had to order the longer ones online as I couldn't find them locally.


Because the round metal inserts in the intake (through which the bolts go) are larger diameter than the diameter of the bolts, the intake can slide up just a little once you shave down the plastic dowels and get rid of the shanked bolts. In these shots you can see the bolt head in the upper and lower positions of its range of movement within the metal insert in the manifold.



I can't say for sure that this will work but am hoping so - I just got the engine set back in the car and still have to hook everything up so it will be a few days before I have time to get it running. The custom fabricated plate may be the best way to go but I didn't want to go to that much trouble unless I have to, and also want to maintain a fairly stock appearance.

I'll let you know how it goes.
 
2.5 swap

I found a Mazda OEM parts supplier, they list the same part number for all first gen 2.3 intake manifolds regardless of year, even 2006+ after the camshaft change. It is part number L37313100E.

That being said, maybe some of the 2.5s have differently shaped ports depending on year or the exact donor vehicle.
antics, for info, mine is a 2011 Fusion 2.5 (only 15k) into a 2005 3 hatchback.
 
I'm doing the swap right now and have the same issue with the larger intake ports on the 2.5 Fusion engine.

Here's what I'm doing that I think might work. I believe that if I can nudge the manifold up just a fraction of an inch, it will seal.

I smeared used motor oil on the rubber intake gaskets and then test fitted the manifold to the head. You can see how the gasket isn't making good contact with the head above the port. Easy to see why there are leaks. The gasket imprint on the bottom (below the port in the head and near the bottom of the picture) is well below the bottom of the port in the head so we have quite a bit of space to work with there.


This is another shot after a couple of modifications that will be described below. There's not much room to spare but the gasket is now making good contact on the head.


There are two small round plastic dowels or nubs on the lower part of the intake manifold, right under the ports. They go into holes right under the intake ports on the head and it looks like they are there to help align the manifold when installing it. What they also do though is keep the manifold from moving up slightly, so I used a hacksaw blade and a file to shave off the top half of the dowel (center of picture). It's possible that they could have been entirely cut off with the same effect.


Then I bought new intake bolts, but fully threaded bolts instead of the stock shanked ones. The shank is just a little larger diameter than the threaded part of the stock bolts but a little can be a lot when we're trying to move the manifold just a smidgen. The short bolts (there are 6 of them I believe) are 40mm long and the longer ones that go on the right side are 80mm. I had to order the longer ones online as I couldn't find them locally.


Because the round metal inserts in the intake (through which the bolts go) are larger diameter than the diameter of the bolts, the intake can slide up just a little once you shave down the plastic dowels and get rid of the shanked bolts. In these shots you can see the bolt head in the upper and lower positions of its range of movement within the metal insert in the manifold.

I can't say for sure that this will work but am hoping so - I just got the engine set back in the car and still have to hook everything up so it will be a few days before I have time to get it running. The custom fabricated plate may be the best way to go but I didn't want to go to that much trouble unless I have to, and also want to maintain a fairly stock appearance.

I'll let you know how it goes.
This is great stuff, thanks a ton for the pics. Your idea about putting the oil on the gaskets to show where it contacts worked perfectly. Your fix seems like it solves the issue completely too.
 
This is great stuff, thanks a ton for the pics. Your idea about putting the oil on the gaskets to show where it contacts worked perfectly. Your fix seems like it solves the issue completely too.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I haven't had time to work on the car but I'll be sure to post an update (good or bad) as soon as it's running. One of the issues with this 2.5 swap is that there isn't a lot of specific information out there about how the swaps worked out several months or several thousand miles afterward. Those who've done it haven't posted much in the way of updates (or if they have, I can't find them) and they don't seem to respond to inquiries. Hopefully those of us doing the swap now can do a better job of keeping everyone informed.
 
It's coming together but not quite there yet.

I finally had a chance to work on it this afternoon and almost everything on top is back together. Still have to reinstall the axles, serpentine and AC belt, belt tensioner, heat shield on exhaust, battery, front radiator hose, and all fluids.

Hoping to get off work a little early on Wednesday so I may have it running then.

How about you - any luck with yours?
 
IT RUNS!

I got everything back together just as it was getting dark this evening but couldn't call it quits for the night without trying to start the engine. I pulled the fuel pump relay and turned the engine over until the oil pressure light went out, then replaced the relay. With a bit of anxiety I said a little prayer and turned the key...the engine started almost immediately and ran well. No leaks and no check engine light even though the CEL was on before I pulled the old blown 2.3 motor.

I'm not declaring success yet but everything looks good so far. I was afraid of the intake manifold leak but the engine is idling well.

I'll try to post some pictures - for now, here's a brief list of parts used:

Fusion
-block and head, including both Fusion camshafts
-EGR valve
-oil separator
-knock sensor
-Variable Valve Timing Solenoid or oil control valve
-coil packs and spark plug boots
-fuel injectors and fuel rail
-oil filter
-spark plugs

Mazda
-timing cover with crank sensor
-aluminum coolant outlet
-intake camshaft timing cog (removed from MZR cam with gear puller and gently tapped onto Fusion cam with a large socket)
-harmonic balancer/crankshaft pulley
-water pump pulley
-cam sensor
-oil pickup tube
-oil pan
-intake and exhaust manifolds
-MAP sensor
-PCV valve
-throttle body and MAF sensor
-valve cover
-starter
-alternator
-thermostat
-flywheel

I still have to torque the axle bolts and install the AC belt before it's ready for a test drive.

Having a glass of vino to celebrate before bed.
 
61 - 80 of 1,582 Posts
Top