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Brake System Flushing Tools

11K views 48 replies 7 participants last post by  M3RacerX 
#1 ·
I need to flush the brake system on both my Mazda and non-Mazda vehicle. I've seen references to vacuum units that operate with the aid of an air compressor; however, it looks like they're set up for European vehicles. I've been considering a pressurized unit which requires the mechanic to pressurize the unit with a hand pump before he/she drains the fluid at each wheel.

Does anyone have any experience with such units? The benefit is the ability for a single person to handle the complete changing of the fluid rather than the two-person pedal pump system. I'm certain there is a solution out there for less than $75. I do have a Mighty Vac brake bleeder, but that's not enough for performing a serious flush.
 
#2 · (Edited)
Most cars now have ABS??? Anyone performing service work except pads and rotors and simple brake fluid replacement (master cylinder and at the calipers only) or bleeding the brakes should study how to do it (*and it is not easy for DIY). Most that think they are replacing the complete fluid are actually only only replacing most but not all the brake fluid with an ABS brake system because of the complexity of the system..
I recomend is a *complete flushing & replacement is serviced that people you use ONLY the FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL for their year and model vehicle and follow EXACTLY the procedure outlined.

When DIY or less then an experienced "mechanic" try to do service on their brakes if not done properly not only take your life into your hands if it is not done correctly but everyone else they share the road with as well!!!
 
#4 ·
I've only used the vacuum method using a Mighty Vac. I wasn't all that impressed and went back to the 2-person method. My son and I can knock out a system flush in about an hour. In Colorado we have the advantage of super dry air, so brake fluid probably can last a long time, but I still like to change it every two years.

I really should buy one of those simple 'hygrometer' type testing units to measure the moisture content.
 
#5 ·
i use a vacuum bleeder that attaches to the bleed nipple
i first vacuum out all fluid from the master. then fill with fresh using a different brand/color to last time
then connect bleeder to bleed nipple and loosen bleed nipple
then pump pedal maybe 6 times and top up master
repeat until you see the color change in the bleeder hose
then lock nipple
using a piece of wood between seat base and brake pedal, i depress pedal then just crack bleeder to get last bit of air out
then move on to next wheel
and if anybody with abs tells me you must start with wheel furthest from master cyl i will scream as they are all separate pipes now
if i have a helper it is a lot quicker
 
#7 ·
and if anybody with abs tells me you must start with wheel furthest from master cyl i will scream as they are all separate pipes now
Hey, this is all I knew! If I don't have to do it in any particular order now, then that is great. I just explained this concept about starting from the furthest wheel and moving to the closest wheel to my son.

You may scream if it makes you feel better. :)
 
#6 · (Edited)
There is a difference between a flushing what the OP considering doing and bleeding,refill of a brake system? One is easily accomplished and can be done without the aid of special tools and diagnostic equipment. I would suggest that VWandDodge who is wanting information about "flushing" (thread title :Brake System Flushing Tools ) read up on these 2 very different methods of service on a vehicle.
 
#9 ·
The only tools you need are a turkey baster, an 8mm flare wrench, a 10mm flare wrench, a hose clamp, some clear tubing, and an empty soda bottle with a hole drilled in the lid.

Pour some brake fluid in the soda bottle

Put the tubing down the bottle so the end is submerged in the brake fluid.

Put the flare nut wrench on the bleeder valve

Place the tubing over the bleeder valve, and use the hose clamp to tighten it down.

Pop the top off of the master cylinder

Empty as much fluid as you can with the turkey baster, and fill it with fresh fluid

Open the bleeder valve

Pump the brakes, watching the fluid come out

Keep an eye on the fluid level in the master cylinder. Keep refilling as it goes down.

When the fluid runs clear, you're done. Tighten the bleeder screw, and move on to the next wheel.

I like to start at right rear, then go left rear, then right front, finishing up at the left front.

EricTheCarGuy has an awesome video showing this process. I've done it, it really works great.
 
#10 ·
The thread initial question and also a follow up that is NOT BLEEDING but "FLUSHING" . The vehicle (at least one) the OP is mentioning although he has not confirmed but may in fact have ABS brake system !!!

Many times you won't even know you did it incorrectly until the ABS activates for a panic stop and then you will know very fast that something is not working properly.

But fear not the vehicle in front of you will act as an example of Newton's ABS braking law of physics's which is that every car in front of you will remain stopped and will help you to stop your vehicle when you hit it. :laugh:

I know Eric (The Car Guy) for years and often use his video's to support some of my service technical support on forums. Some may look a little more for his video information about ABS system. :wink2:
A quote I found today:
The biggest challenge for those of us with partial knowledge is to know our limits.
 
#11 ·
Is what blooms described "flushing" or "bleeding". I suppose I don't understand the difference between the two terms.

I always though of bleeding the brakes as removing some air bubbles to make the brake pedal feel firmer. While flushing is to replace all the fluid in the system as per blooms description. I've never run into an issue with doing what he described or with replacing brake calipers, rotors, and brake pads on ABS systems.
 
#12 ·
There is a distinct difference.
The one best source for information about brake service is Factory Service Procedure for "FLUSHING" a ABS System. ALL Data would be my choice as it will have many Factory service updates that are not always incorporated thorough information sources and is primarily what I use in the shop(s).
Just some good reading....noting more.
Bleeding ABS Brake Systems

Normally I would say well do want you all want its your car, but ITS MY CAR IF YOU REAR END ME BECAUSE YOU WONT LISTEN TO ADVISE ABOUT THE PROPER WAY TO SERVICE A BRAKE SYSTEM. :frown2:
 
#13 ·
Fortunately I don't rely on ABS to stop my car! :) From now on I shall refer to any brake fluid replacement/exchange as "purging" and therefore people won't know if I'm referring to bleeding or flushing.

OK, I'll take a look at the FSM since I have one for both the Gen 1 Mazda 3 and the Ford Explorer. I'll let you know if I find anything interesting. I don't have All Data.
 
#14 · (Edited)
ABS is not something you normally use when stopping anyway. I would venture to guess that at least 75% of car owners have never had the experience to feel what ABS actually does?


"Purging".........wtf :rolledeyes: .....( what the frick).... is something different also........:laugh:

The FSM will have some interesting information...I looked.:nerd:
I can no longer post ALL Data copied information I was informed that I am violating the agreement with using their information without consent. CRAP!:crying: For me it was nice to have as something I could throw out to support my response information or service recommendation and a member dis-agreed with me. Now unless someone knows me I am just another "JOE" average DIY member....... NOT!!!! :laugh:
 
#16 ·
Thanks for the responses and, as M3RacerX pointed out, I wanted advice for tools regarding flushing and not bleeding. It's important to read the original question or statement before responding :wink2:

Another contact of mine recommend using a Motive pressure bleeder for flushing. Here are his comments:

I prefer pressure bleeding myself. I have a Motive pressure bleeder. It does a pretty good job and is not exorbitantly expensive. I normally use a Mighty Vac with the little fluid container to evacuate the fluid from the master cylinder reservoir, use some brake clean to break down any sediment that is in the reservoir, suck that out with the Mighty Vac, then top off with fluid and use the Motive pressure bleeder to flush the rest of the brake lines. Just be aware that without cycling the antilock brakes, there will be some fluid in the brake pressure modulator valve assembly and pump that won’t be removed. If you wanted to be SUPER thorough, do all of the steps above, take the car out and do a few abs stops, then flush the lines again. I usually don’t do that though. It is actually good practice though to perform an abs stop periodically to ensure the modulator valve and pump don’t seize. I normally do it in an empty parking lot once or twice a year when the first accumulation of snow falls. I make sure traction control and abs get actuated.
 
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#17 ·
Very educational post, VWandDodge! I never thought there was a difference between bleeding and flushing. I figured it was all semantics. It's really good for me to understand the need to activate the traction control and ABS on a regular basis to keep the systems working. We get several chances each year here in Colorado to activate the ABS system whether we intend to or not!
 
#18 ·
Back in the 1990s, a co-worker of mine explained he took his Ford Explorer off roading one weekend per year for a couple of hours with the 4x4 engaged. This is back when manufacturers were moving away from manual lockers to the electronic. So, what's the big deal about the once per year adventure? Well, if the electronic system wasn't actuated on a regular basis the mechanism was prone to corrosion and would get locked in place. The motor control would not be able to engage the front lockers if they were truly needed. It's the same way with vehicles equipped with drum brakes in the rear. Rear drums have self-adjusters which engage when the vehicle is driven short distances in reverse and the brakes are applied. However, if the vehicle isn't driven backward at all, then the adjusters don't engage. My dad (a product designer who designed parking brake mechanisms for Ford) explained why he would go up and down the driveway at home in reverse and hit the brakes. He would repeat the process (back and forth) several times, thereby ensuring the adjusters engaged and set the shoes. We had a long driveway, but an empty parking lot works as well.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Brake systems are sealed. The only main reason failure is if **routine maintenance was not done which includes the proper flushing of a brake system. **ABS do not need to be activated routinely to remain operational.
Electronic's may develop a connectability issue but this is subbject solely what involvement a vehicle is operated in.

The actual easier and better method of adjusting the rear shoes on drum brakes systems was to get under the car and use the proper adjusting wrench. This way they are done even on both sides. The backing up method sometimes did not always work the best and if the star wheel were worn you could end up with one side adjusted more then the other.

It should be noted that if you use "BRAKE CLEAN" to spray it on a rag and wipe the brake cylinder and not to spray the fluid directly into the master cylinder or for that matter any area that could get into the brake fluid.

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#20 · (Edited)
Brake systems are sealed. The only main reason failure is if **routine maintenance was not done which includes the proper flushing of a brake system. **ABS do not need to be activated routinely to remain operational.
Electronic's may develop a connectability issue but this is subbject solely what involvement a vehicle is operated in.

The actual easier and better method of adjusting the rear shoes on drum brakes systems was to get under the car and use the proper adjusting wrench. This way they are done even on both sides. The backing up method sometimes did not always work the best and if the star wheel were worn you could end up with one side adjusted more then the other.

It should be noted that if you use "BRAKE CLEAN" to spray it on a rag and wipe the brake cylinder and not to spray the fluid directly into the master cylinder or for that matter any area that could get into the brake fluid.

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Brake systems may be sealed, but they're still ventilated and susceptible to moisture. A great example is when I had to replace a seized caliper on my Dodge truck earlier this year. A truly sealed system as you describe would not have resulted in that kind of part failure. And, don't forget, DOT 3 fluid is stock for *most* cars (barring performance sports cars) and is hygroscopic.

Also, saying it's easier to adjust the rear brakes by getting under the vehicle is subjective. As I said, my dad was an engineer who did a lot with brake systems. Not everyone is mechanically inclined and, as is evident in the US, not everyone is willing to spend money for regular vehicle maintenance. Hence how auto manufacturers and designers devise ways to get around that, such as with the self-adjusting mechanisms.
 
#22 · (Edited)
I wonder how many of you debate with your Doctors,Dentist on your own health....:laugh:



The caliper you mention is a GREAT example of one that was not being service for its operating environment and/or was isolated incident! ....You are correct about brake system not being 100% sealed. That is why brake fluid replacement and brake system periodic servicing at least checking moisture content is a must do!

The self adjusting rear brake shoes was a "feature" to make vehicles of the time look innovative to sell. A mechanical *engineer or defiantly a brake system designer (*like myself) or a historian of automotive history of mechanical designs would know that:laugh:
To be clear if you are going to use what members on forum write at least use all the information, my wording I said that it would quote..."be easier and better method of adjusting the rear shoes on drum brakes systems" !:nerd:
Furthermore...how many "owners" manuals describe the need for rear brake adjusting?:surprise:

Now careful answering this one because there were actauly a few...but if you look them up you will understand why I am going to ...:laugh: about what you find!
 
#23 ·
VWandDodge,

That takes me back. I hope I'm not as old as your Dad, or I'll need to start calling you "sonny". My first several cars all had drums brakes, and my Dad told me to just drive in reverse and hit the brake pedal to adjust them after I replaced brake shoes. They always seemed to adjust nicely after just a couple of times...down the driveway of course!

These days I do prefer to work on calipers to replace pads. Glad to be done with drum brakes. I absolutely hated leaky rear wheel cylinders on my old Datsun roadsters (I had three of them!).
 
#25 ·
So I got off my lazy rear and did a thorough review of the brake sections of both my Mazda 3 FSM and Ford Explorer (2011) FSM. I did a word search for "flush" and nothing came up in the brake sections even though the word Flush occurred like a hundred times throughout the few thousand pages of material.

I searched for "bleed" and saw this many times throughout the manuals with, of course, many instances in the brake section. I also paged through the brake sections looking at any part where brake fluid needed to be changed.

Nope, didn't see anything on flushing. The ABS sections didn't cover it either. Oh well.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Look under R&R ABS system components.

If not found call a Dealer, ask for the service department and then ask the price difference between bleeding a brake system and a complete flushing and fluid replacement ABS equip vehicle.


There are some members that really know what we are talking about mainly because it is or was their trained profession in automotive repair, so debating or attempting to find fault with their responses when it concerns the "BRAKE" system on any given vehicle ....really????.... Maybe everyone should stop their cars The Flintstones way? :laugh:
 
#27 ·
OK, so what about this. For the sake of argument, say you do have a car with ABS, and you replace all of the fluid except for the small amount of what's left in the ABS reservoir. Who cares? You just got 90% of it. What little remains will eventually dilute out into the fresh stuff anyway. It's not like brake fluid can't last for years anyway.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Most ABC system do not circulate the brake fluid. So area's like the ABC controller and associated components unless you do a complete flushing the fluid will continue to age and collect contaminates like moisture and the effectiveness of the brake fluid deteriorates and will cause problems with the components in the ABS system and other hydraulic brake parts.

FYI...Factory Service Manuals for most platforms are worded for the "mechanic" in common terms.(i.e. alternators can be worded as generators,ECU and PCM and vice versa). The trained "mechanic" generally understands the difference between bleeding and flushing any fluids and more on topic to replace and service the brake fluid on a ABS equip vehicles. Most ALL Factory service Manuals with information about ABS will use predominantly use the word bleeding except in area's of warning or caution and then the word "FLUSH" may appear even if only for a single word ever used in the complete chapter having to do with ABC brakes systems.

Generally Factory Service Manuals were once only available to the dealers.
Information less known....the written material is many times sent to a publishing house in a foreign language from the engineering departments that set the service procedures. These publishers will use none mechanically or automotive technical employee's to translate the information into English (or other languages generally after the already English translation was done ) using more common language words so both the specialty factory trained auto technicians and mechanics as well none factory trained mechanics and Auto Technicians like ASE can understand the basic language information commonly used for servicing procedures. Professional auto service technicians and mechanic's know the difference and understanding the true meaning of commonly mis-used words on forums such as "bleeding" and "flushing".
I was going to post SEVERAL warning/cautions in randomly grabbed off my shelf official Factory Service Manuals that one or two only mention the word Flushing once just to satisfy a member or 2 with their good effort looking partial information up for themselves. But really it is still pointless unless you first understand everything I just pointed out about the way FSM are meant to be used and who is really suppose to use them in the first place? I mean we can all get how to be a Doctor and self learn, but who wants them to do heart surgery on you from that same Doctor? Us guys are funny, if it is a car we all were born knowing everything about them and how to work on them. I have customers filling the appointment books weekly that feel that way when they bring their car into the shop to get service work done. Or many times redo something they tried to fix the DYI their way. LOL

Math question....

If I have 1.5 quarts of brake fluid that will represent the total amount in a hypothetical ABS complete brake system and there is an accumulated 1/6 OZ of water in the system. What is the percentage of water in brake fluid? :wink2:
Hint...it is a trick question!
 
#32 · (Edited)
your theory as well your car are your own. Do what you think best. :smile2:

And NO brake fluid and moisture and other contaminates do not apply to your thoughts. But nice try. You left out a few things in your thoughts but I am not going to now talk chemistry, :wink2: :nerd:


AT this point as they say you can lead the proverbial horse to water...but...

and

this, my responses at this point or yet another proverbial phrase of beating a dead horse. :nerd:


Try this in different ways and area's of samples and come back with better idea's and perhaps knowledge for similar experience references? :wink2: :smile2:

Tin can Cylinder Aluminum can Auto part Metal


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Good luck for all members and their brake fluid refreshing exchange. :laugh:
For me the correct way of flushing brake fluid has Already Been Serviced in most of my cars.
 
#34 · (Edited)
Dude really I am talking about your thoughts/theories on the ABS systems and the brake fluid in that system. WOW!!! :frown2: Not talking about what many of us learned learned at age 12 from a chemistry set playing with it in the bathroom. (poking fun.. I hope you get the idea?)

I post on threads to help and not have to defend all my responses. :(


Please... Go re-read EXACTLY what I said and not what you think I said!


When member frick up their ABS system it won't be because on this forum and this thread I did try to set them with information and cautions.
 
#39 · (Edited)
:laugh:

Those that tend to have higher IQ's seldom get the correct answer....(I didn't and did what a couple of you are doing now, over thinking the simple solution ) as I said people read things others post for what they want to read and not what is written.. :nerd:
Point you cant have it your way when it comes to the mechanic's of how vehicle parts work. There is a correct way to do things as things were engineered.:laugh:
 
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