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post #1 of 40 (permalink) Old 04-02-2014, 08:33 AM Thread Starter
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2014 3i for STF

Figured I'd start a thread for the folks that are working on a 2014 for Street Class. (edit---now STF)

What I know so far:

1) Wheels and Tires options are the same as the earlier cars. The only oddity there is the factory tire size is 205/60R16, not 205/55...and second gear tops out at about 63ish. So...gearing is shorter than earlier 3s. That would tend to lean the choice towards 225/50R16 rather than the 225/45R16 for big courses.

2) Struts/Shocks have not been developed yet. I've emailed Lee at Koni some images of the struts so he's aware they are different than the earlier cars.

3) The front lower strut mount is more like a Subaru/VW/Dodge with two bolts per strut bottom. There are no "camber" bolts yet available from Mazda. I am getting an alignment this weekend to see what kind of front camber I can get.

4) There's a rear bar available from Corksport. They are, in theory, working on a front as well.

Um. What else. It's got steel doors so your magnets stick to it?

Per

Last edited by stigsdad; 04-24-2015 at 11:21 AM.
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post #2 of 40 (permalink) Old 04-02-2014, 09:56 AM
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It'd be nice to know how much caster you can wring out of the stock suspension pickup points, for weighing the steering and camber gain in corners.

Do not believe you can slot the upper strut mount points for additional camber (I never ran in stock class) but if there's any play at all it'd be in your best interest to loosen the bolts and shove the top of the strut in towards the engine bay as much as possible before that alignment.

CG Lock would probably help keep you glued in the seat. Also, if you have ANY issues with pedal height (for heel-toeing) I'd see what tweaking you can do to get the office in order.

Stock class isn't my forte honestly. I never raced in it, am not 100% sure what can and can't be changed, and the rules have all changed since the last time I autocrossed (over 5 years ago.)

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post #3 of 40 (permalink) Old 04-02-2014, 11:40 AM
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Uh new cars have a BUTTTON of caster from the factory, more than any other FWD car. You'll be good there.

The cheapo CG lock is the metal piece that you can get for baby seats that does the same thing less fancy-like for $3

Get a pyrometer and record 3 tire temps (outer, center, inner) for each tire after each run- will give you the best idea on how much camber you need and how to change inflation.

Grease pen or chalk for a sidewall to tread mark to measure sidewall rollover.

Have fun!
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post #4 of 40 (permalink) Old 04-02-2014, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stigsdad View Post
Figured I'd start a thread for the folks that are working on a 2014 for Street Class.

What I know so far:

1) Wheels and Tires options are the same as the earlier cars. The only oddity there is the factory tire size is 205/60R16, not 205/55...and second gear tops out at about 63ish. So...gearing is shorter than earlier 3s. That would tend to lean the choice towards 225/50R16 rather than the 225/45R16 for big courses.

2) Struts/Shocks have not been developed yet. I've emailed Lee at Koni some images of the struts so he's aware they are different than the earlier cars.

3) The front lower strut mount is more like a Subaru/VW/Dodge with two bolts per strut bottom. There are no "camber" bolts yet available from Mazda. I am getting an alignment this weekend to see what kind of front camber I can get.

4) There's a rear bar available from Corksport. They are, in theory, working on a front as well.

Um. What else. It's got steel doors so your magnets stick to it?

Per
I have a 2014 i-sport hatch as my daily so I'm interested in following along on your thread.

As far as wheels/tires go, you have the +1/-1 rule so I would definitely be taking advantage of it and not sticking around on the 16x6.5" wheels. I would go down to a 15x6.5" wheel and use 205/50/15 tires. Compared to 225/50/16 you'd save yourself a lot of rotating weight in both the tire and wheel and also get better gearing (60+ mph is still too tall for an H-Street car on an average AX course), lower the car a full inch, and get better steering feel and a better fit tire wise. A 225/50/16 street tire on a 6.5" wheel leaves a lot to be desired in many ways and not ideal. I have been there, done that many many times. A 225/45/16 is no better in this case and would ideally be on at least an inch wider rim than 6.5." You are trying to shove too much street tire on too narrow of a rim.

Last edited by Adam3s; 04-02-2014 at 12:47 PM.
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post #5 of 40 (permalink) Old 04-02-2014, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
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Yep, all good points, although I'm not a fan of running out of second gear on bigger courses. The drop from a 205/60R16 to a 225/50R16 should bring the real top of second down to an indicated 61...haven't had a GPS in the car to see how accurate that is. Might try the 225/45R16, but 15s would short, IMO.

My last ride was a B-Modified LeGrand that would push mid 70s in second....
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post #6 of 40 (permalink) Old 04-02-2014, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stigsdad View Post
Yep, all good points, although I'm not a fan of running out of second gear on bigger courses. The drop from a 205/60R16 to a 225/50R16 should bring the real top of second down to an indicated 61...haven't had a GPS in the car to see how accurate that is. Might try the 225/45R16, but 15s would short, IMO.

My last ride was a B-Modified LeGrand that would push mid 70s in second....
Well, it's certainly your decision to make but most top national level guys on street tires would unanimously agree that a 225/50 or 225/45 is too much tire for a 6.5" wide wheel and a 205 would perform better regardless if you go 15" or 16" diameter.

Lightweight 16x6.5" wheels for our cars are few and none are real light (around 15 lbs each). A somewhat affordable 16x6.5 with a 225/50/16 tire is going to weigh around 38 lbs each. A somewhat affordable 15x6.5" wheel with a 205/50/15 tire is going to weigh around 30 lbs each. 8 lbs x 4 = 32 lbs of unsprung weight off the car which is significant.

205/50/15 tires would give the 2014 3i a top speed in 2nd gear of around 56-57 mph. That would be nearly spot on for average sized courses, but I agree a little short for the big courses. You may have been a little spoiled by the Legrand in the power to weight dept HS cars don't get in a big hurry when you push on down the skinny pedal and have difficulty breaking 60 mph most of the time. Due to gearing advantage and drop in rotating weight, the car would feel like it has an extra 15-20 hp/tq on the 15's which would be very welcome because the 2.0L engine is definitely still a little anemic in the low to mid rpm range compared to the 2.3L and 2.5L which someone wouldn't know just by looking at peak numbers on paper. On 25" tall tires the car is going to feel like a dog on any kind of slow sections or dig outs. Ideally, a short setup and long setup would probably be best since the rev limiter can't be increased in stock/street. If I had to pick one, I'd say the short setup would be the better setup in "most" situations IMO, but personal preference probably plays a role. I'd rather hit the rev limiter a little than have the car fall on it's face exiting a slow/tight corner. When it comes down to it think the short setup is going to keep the car in the "best" part of the power band more often on most courses.

Last edited by Adam3s; 04-02-2014 at 03:10 PM.
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post #7 of 40 (permalink) Old 04-02-2014, 03:02 PM Thread Starter
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Yea, might be a little spoiled. Anyway, yea, these early 3 wheels I have are about 14.5 pounds. The Hankook RS3s that were on them were free, so what the heck. I'll try them. If they don't work, I'll try something else.

Before BMod, I ran H and G for years--so have some speed maintenance skills I need to reacquaint myself with. Heck, I need to get back into the swing of autocrossing all together. 2013 was the first Nats I've missed in 17 years.
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post #8 of 40 (permalink) Old 04-02-2014, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by stigsdad View Post
Yea, might be a little spoiled. Anyway, yea, these early 3 wheels I have are about 14.5 pounds. The Hankook RS3s that were on them were free, so what the heck. I'll try them. If they don't work, I'll try something else.
10-4, if you already got the setup try it and see what happens. Report back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stigsdad View Post
Before BMod, I ran H and G for years--so have some speed maintenance skills I need to reacquaint myself with. Heck, I need to get back into the swing of autocrossing all together. 2013 was the first Nats I've missed in 17 years.
Oh wow, well I bet we know a lot of the same people. I didn't know Tommy real well, but was shocked and very sorry to hear what happened. He was a great champion and also from what I hear a great person.
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post #9 of 40 (permalink) Old 04-06-2014, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stigsdad View Post
Before BMod, I ran H and G for years--so have some speed maintenance skills I need to reacquaint myself with. Heck, I need to get back into the swing of autocrossing all together. 2013 was the first Nats I've missed in 17 years.

Were you in HS at Nats in 1997?

Edit: Pretty sure I know who stigsdad is. If so, great guy, lots of experience, always fun to have in grid, and whupped my butt plenty of times at National events when I was running a first gen Integra in HS a long time ago.

2008 New England Region SCCA HS Class Champion
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Last edited by PZ; 04-06-2014 at 09:47 PM.
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post #10 of 40 (permalink) Old 04-07-2014, 09:03 AM Thread Starter
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Hey Paul...Yep. 1997 was a good year for HS..tough battle. Dropped from second to third on the second day at Nats, still good for 18th on index out of 1000 drivers. Didn't do that well again until 2011 with another 3rd place trophy in BMod.

There aren't many Pers that autocross, so I figured it would be somewhat obvious to other autocrossers.

Got the 2014 aligned. It's got about .7 of negative camber, but 6.3 degrees of caster (double of the earlier cars). I set the toes at zero so I can easily adjust from there.

Per Schroeder
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