Ah yes, another newbie with another broken MZ3 - Page 3 - Mazda3 Forums : The #1 Mazda 3 Forum
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post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-02-2016, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpecialEd View Post
If you want to try to get a good value for the car at resale, new bearings might eliminate the clanking noise for a test drive. This may or may not be the best "solution" and it's also kind of shady if you don't inform the prospective buyer of this repair..
Yeah, I'm not a jerk like that I will bandaid it together (a set of rod bearings delivered tomorrow from amazon was $90)...and make it last as long as it will last. There is plenty of market here for me to sell it on the street to someone with the knowledge that they need a swap, and there is plenty of market here for selling on the street to someone who won't bother with a swap and drive it until it throws rods through the oil pan...either way, someone will get a 90% perfect Mazda3 with upgraded exhaust and great paint for $2000.

Hell, maybe I'll sell it here.
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post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-02-2016, 11:59 AM Thread Starter
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Also, before anyone brings it up...

Yes, I know that tossing new standard bearings on a spun rod is not the right solution. I know that the crank and rod both need to be machined, and oversized bearing put in. I know that the crank needs to be scanned for cracks and heat marks. I DON'T CARE. I want a rod that doesn't knock much for the next 3-4k miles and not much more. I understand the importance of keeping good engine building techniques front and center for others when they search.

I also know that sometimes, you can get away with scratches and gouges on the crank or cam surface under the bearings, because it just makes the oil journal bigger. I had a Toyota truck where I fixed a frozen camshaft with my DREMEL, grinding the damage away, then proceeded to off road it for 2 years, sell it, and had the buyer run it for 2 or 3 more years. I'll drop the rod caps, pull the bearings, spin the crank while scraping the bearing surface with emory until "clean", and button it back up.
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post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-02-2016, 10:04 PM Thread Starter
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So...

Socket for rod bolts? Inverted Torx? T30? Anyone?

Thanks!

E10, right? 9mm *might* work, but likely to knock off the splines? E10 is 9.4mm equivalent

Last edited by Pazuzu; 03-02-2016 at 10:20 PM.
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post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-03-2016, 01:20 PM
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Really bad piston slap? I don't know what to say about the tappet though.

2005 Mazda3 Hatchback
2.5l L5-VE 5 speed
Koni Orange, Eibach Pro-Kit, MS Sway Bars F/R, MS3 Exhaust


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post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-04-2016, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
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Well, the rod bolts are NOT E10, they are E12. The cheap set of sockets I bought did not go to E12, so I did not pull the bearings yet :grrrrrr:
I did put the chain, guides, and sprockets back on.

I sanded the tappet down a bit, and it went in with some persuasion. I hope that getting beat like a mule by the cam teaches it some manners.
I cut half the head off of my TDC pin and it went in just fine, so now I can time everything.

So, I guess I order an E12 socket overnight from Amazon, and proceed with the timing, timing chain, lock down the cam bearings, put the valve cover back on place, passenger mount, wiring, then receive socket, do rod bearings, and be done with this.
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post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 10:39 AM Thread Starter
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Time to finish the story.

Finally got the E12 socket, and went to town on the rod bearings. #2 and #3 came off first because the engine was at TDC. First image shows the bearing caps and bearings. Some wear, nothing horrible. #2 bears had turned 90 degrees. No scoring on the crank. Replace the bearings, and turn the engine over for #1 and #4.

Well...#1 had been the source of my rod noise, and I think I found it. #4 bears had rotated 90 degrees and showed some scoring. #1 bearings...

well, I thought that it was missing at first. There was NO bearing under the rod cap. None. Nada. There WAS however TWO bearings under the rod surface, because the one had gone UNDER the other one. That's a new one for me! The bearings had been hammered paper thin and were split and torn/missing sections. However, the crank and rod cap didn't look that bad, so I tossed new bearings in and buttoned it up.

Timing cover back on, oil pan back on, valve cover back on, everything put together. Cranked for a few seconds with the fuel pump fuse removed to build oil pressure, then powered the pump a few times, and the engine fired right up. Load dependent ticking from the top of the engine still (only when driving, not just revving), but no rod noise. Drove around including highway speeds and RPMs up to 5K, no loss of power and no codes. No oil leaks, no overheating, just some top end noise.

Told the wife to turn the radio up and ignore the sounds, drive like the car is 100% fixed because it's silly to be afraid of it or baby it at this point. If the bearings blow out again, she should drag it home screaming instead of having it towed, because the engine is of no recoverable value right now, and a blown rod won't affect any of the rest of the car that is in excellent shape.

Maybe I'll get a video this week of the top end noise while driving. It sounds like what we've had for almost 2 years (but slightly louder), which is a load and speed dependent, plasticy clicking-tapping sound from the top end.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg pistons_2_3.jpg (315.6 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg pistons_1_4.jpg (338.8 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg bearings1.jpg (304.6 KB, 20 views)
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post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 11:52 AM
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Thanks for the update; kinda-sorta as we expected. Congrats on getting to the bottom end before doing damage to the rods or the crank.

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post #28 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 02:59 PM
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Awesome of you to post a follow up. Let us know if you have another (presumed) bearing failure if you don't mind. I'm sure I'm not the only one here that is curious how long this will last.

After seeing those scope pics of the clean metal edge on #1 I was almost certain it was rod bearings or wrist pin. That piston head will rattle around in that cylinder when those go out of spec and cause quite a bit of damage to anything near them.

Funny though I've never heard of bearings worn so thin they rotate atop each other before, crazy.

Wonder if that top end noise is the VVT noise that others have experienced? I've never heard it in person or had to deal with it but a google search will lead to a few good videos of that issue in action.

Keep an eye on those oil levels too. I know you're not hell bent on keeping this car for the long haul but seizing the engine due to oil starvation leaves you stranded on the road and that always sucks.
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post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpecialEd View Post
Funny though I've never heard of bearings worn so thin they rotate atop each other before, crazy.
Not saying I've seen that happen a lot, but I have seen it several times; said another way, it is more common than you think. That said, I have *NEVER* seen the spun two-layer bearing thing happen and leave the rod end relatively unscathed, so this is a first for me too.

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post #30 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Funny though I've never heard of bearings worn so thin they rotate atop each other before, crazy.
Yeah, I'm not sure if they were thinned out and therefore could move like that, or if one actually forced it's way under then the crank action flattened them.

Quote:
Wonder if that top end noise is the VVT noise that others have experienced? I've never heard it in person or had to deal with it but a google search will lead to a few good videos of that issue in action.
VVT, timing chain and all 3 sprockets were changed, but the tensioner was not nor were the guides (all of those looked fine). In fact, the sprockets looked 100% as well, but I have always changed them when a new chain is put on an engine in case they had worn into the old chain. I was careful to "align" the VVT oiling holes, but even the one I took off seemed OK (the hole was not hogged out on it).

Quote:
Keep an eye on those oil levels too. I know you're not hell bent on keeping this car for the long haul but seizing the engine due to oil starvation leaves you stranded on the road and that always sucks.
My wife is very apologetic about the oil conditions, I think she'll watch it now.
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