Mr. Yuck's NA Build ***Time to build up the motor*** - Mazda3 Forums : The #1 Mazda 3 Forum
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-19-2009, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
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Mr. Yuck's NA Build ***Time to build up the motor***

Here are my current mods:
CP-e Stand Back
MSDS Header
K&N
Custom 2.5" Magnaflow

Goal:
200 whp

I am trying to understand more about compression ratio's for my NA build. From what I understand increasing the compression ration will increase power.

Do you guys have some advice about increasing compression ratio's (primarily for NA cars). I am about 20 hp away from the 200 whp mark. Help me get there.

I am thinking of going with the Ranger Crank. Its 6 lbs lighter than the stock crank so I assume it would give me a little more power. Also thinking of going with larger pistons to increase compression but I need more info on this.

288awhp/340tq @ Moore Automotive 2/11/2012 on ~e30 Boost Tune
Best so far...12.73 @ 107 mph 1.74 60' Mason Dixon Raceway 4/15/2012
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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-19-2009, 03:15 PM
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Re: Mr. Yuck's NA Build ***Time to build up the motor***

Yes, higher compression + good tune = more power. The good tune part is important, because higher compression also = higher cylinder temperatures = get your timing and AFR perfect or else boom.


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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-19-2009, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mr. Yuck's NA Build ***Time to build up the motor***

[quote author=cali_axela link=topic=148341.msg3187018#msg3187018 date=1245435353]
Yes, higher compression + good tune = more power. The good tune part is important, because higher compression also = higher cylinder temperatures = get your timing and AFR perfect or else boom.
[/quote]

Note taken...So now I need to figure out what my best option(s) are for increasing the CR. Are pistons the easiest and cheapest way to increase CR? I also hear that changing to smaller head gaskets with increase CR?...

288awhp/340tq @ Moore Automotive 2/11/2012 on ~e30 Boost Tune
Best so far...12.73 @ 107 mph 1.74 60' Mason Dixon Raceway 4/15/2012
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-19-2009, 03:23 PM
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Re: Mr. Yuck's NA Build ***Time to build up the motor***

Yes and yes. Pistons are the main player in making tweaks to your CR. A thinner head gasket can also raise CR but I'm not sure it's worth it on a daily driven car. Just get forged rods + higher CR pistons, replace your bearings with new OEM ones while you're in there for good measure, and get a Standback for tuning (and a professional tune done with it).


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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-19-2009, 03:27 PM
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Re: Mr. Yuck's NA Build ***Time to build up the motor***

After building some main internals and such and this tuning, maybe you should consider some nitrous?

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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-19-2009, 03:29 PM
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Re: Mr. Yuck's NA Build ***Time to build up the motor***

+1 for Cali! Also very interested about this build!


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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-19-2009, 03:46 PM
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Re: Mr. Yuck's NA Build ***Time to build up the motor***

More compression will certainly help. I don't know what pistons/ratios are readily available but you should be able to run up to 12:1 on 91-94 octane pump gas with a good tune.

As cali_axela said, stronger rods are definitely recommended and new bearings are a no-brainer if the engine is apart anyway.

And since the engine will be apart a little head work can be done for free. With the MAF being the major air flow restriction you are only going to gain so much from head work but basic clean-up/blueprinting will give you some free power. You don't need a flow bench to do a basic bowl blend and gasket match. If you can afford the cost a good valve job will help too but then you get into having the valve clearances adjusted. Personally, I'd just smooth the transitions from the aluminum head casting to the iron seats and gasket match the intake manifold and header.

You can also optimise the throttle body for free. Even if you have the "small" 55 mm TB it will help a bit to cut down the shaft and knife edge the throttle plate. Gains will be minimal but if you can pick up 1-2 hp for a couple of hours work then you may as well take what you can get.
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-19-2009, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Mr. Yuck's NA Build ***Time to build up the motor***

[quote author=cali_axela link=topic=148341.msg3187037#msg3187037 date=1245435818]
Yes and yes. Pistons are the main player in making tweaks to your CR. A thinner head gasket can also raise CR but I'm not sure it's worth it on a daily driven car. Just get forged rods + higher CR pistons, replace your bearings with new OEM ones while you're in there for good measure, and get a Standback for tuning (and a professional tune done with it).
[/quote]

Yes I already have the CP-E standback. What CR ratio is ideal for my situation...daily driver but trying to reach the 200 whp mark.

Are rods needed since I am only going to be pushing close to 200 hp? The MS3 pushes 260 hp with the same rods. Does the higher compression ratio of a NA car put more stress on the motor than a stock MS3?

[quote author=balding geezer link=topic=148341.msg3187075#msg3187075 date=1245437190]

And since the engine will be apart a little head work can be done for free. With the MAF being the major air flow restriction you are only going to gain so much from head work but basic clean-up/blueprinting will give you some free power.

You can also optimise the throttle body for free. Even if you have the "small" 55 mm TB it will help a bit to cut down the shaft and knife edge the throttle plate. Gains will be minimal but if you can pick up 1-2 hp for a couple of hours work then you may as well take what you can get.
[/quote]

I am trying to keep my costs down as low as possible. I dont think head work is "free". It seems like alot of labor. And yes I plan on doing the optimised TB as some point.

288awhp/340tq @ Moore Automotive 2/11/2012 on ~e30 Boost Tune
Best so far...12.73 @ 107 mph 1.74 60' Mason Dixon Raceway 4/15/2012
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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-19-2009, 04:19 PM
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Re: Mr. Yuck's NA Build ***Time to build up the motor***

If I am not wrong then, Cpe software also can remove the limiter then for higher compression pistons to work right?

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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-19-2009, 04:20 PM
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Re: Mr. Yuck's NA Build ***Time to build up the motor***

[quote author=richierichness link=topic=148341.msg3187110#msg3187110 date=1245438656]
[quote author=cali_axela link=topic=148341.msg3187037#msg3187037 date=1245435818]
Yes and yes. Pistons are the main player in making tweaks to your CR. A thinner head gasket can also raise CR but I'm not sure it's worth it on a daily driven car. Just get forged rods + higher CR pistons, replace your bearings with new OEM ones while you're in there for good measure, and get a Standback for tuning (and a professional tune done with it).
[/quote]

Yes I already have the CP-E standback. What CR ratio is ideal for my situation...daily driver but trying to reach the 200 whp mark.

Are rods needed since I am only going to be pushing close to 200 hp? The MS3 pushes 260 hp with the same rods. Does the higher compression ratio of a NA car put more stress on the motor than a stock MS3?
[/quote]

the ms3 doesn't have the same rods


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