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Heel Toe Downshift Question

15K views 50 replies 31 participants last post by  Cab0oze 
#1 ·
I really got into driving after getting this car. It is safe to say that I am becoming obsessed. This is my first performance car. I am working on heel-toe but I feel like with our pedal setup it is not too easy. That or I just still suck at it.

How do all you guys do it? Do you use your toe on the brake and heel on the gas, or the other way around? Or do you kinda use one side of your foot on the brake and the other half on the gas? Maybe even taking your toe off the break a little bit to have your heel tap the gas?

The way I have been trying is with my toe on the brake like normal for braking, and my heel to blip the gas. I have only tried a few times so I am sure I'll eventually get it, but I would like to know if there are any tips you all have that could help me out. I guess I would double clutch it that feels more natural to me while trying to heel toe.

Thanks and sorry for the kinda long post for such a simple question.
 
#27 ·
One things that made it a lot easier for my is I got a set of cheap clip on pedal covers from a friend. they clamp down over the original pedals and made the surface area greater and closes the gap between the gas and the break pedal, this way I can blip the throttle without having to slide my foot off the break. I prefer to do it either bearfoot or in my puma race-style shoes. With the gap decreased between the pedals, I only have to slide my foot half way between the gas and the break and there is little need to pivot my heal out to reach the gas. You can pick a set up from pepboys or autozone for about 20 bucks.
 
#28 ·
[quote author=gwood link=topic=84437.msg1598499#msg1598499 date=1185838965]
I also use the side of my foot to blip the gas. Here is a really good link in terms of practice:

http://motoringfile.com/2005/07/24/heel_and_toe_shifting_made_simple/
[/quote]
I read over this guide and I noticed with the pedal setup on the Speed 3 the brake and gas are very close together. So all I am doing (been practicing for a few days) is putting the ball of my foot (Left Edge) on the brake and keeping my foot level when I need to blip the gas I just slightly turn my foot over on the gas but not having to move it at all. When on the track this will be very simple as when braking hard for a turn your foot should be almost level with the gas and hardly have roll to blip.
 
#31 ·
[quote author=Coulda link=topic=84437.msg1703595#msg1703595 date=1189456234]
Ball and edge works for me with shoes on...still cant do it in the work boots though...damned things!
[/quote]

I've got to get a better pair of shoes... :x My normal kicks are not well suited.
 
#34 ·
[quote author=NismoSkylineGTR link=topic=84437.msg1764652#msg1764652 date=1191795379]
this is FWD use left foot brake

thats all guys heal and toe wont get you faster results
[/quote]

Then how do you put the clutch in to get into the right gear before the turn?

I'm pretty sure braking with your left foot going into the turn would yeild the slowest result because you will be at a slower speed coming out of the turn and will have to downshift after completing the turn. Heel-toe has the same effect regardless of if your car is FWD, RWD, or AWD and that is to allow you to have more power going through a turn. If you look at the video posted earlier in the thread about left foot braking you'll notice he still heel-toe downshifts before the turn.
 
#36 ·
[quote author=JMS3GTL link=topic=84437.msg1764782#msg1764782 date=1191800724]
all these techniques are good for a drivers arsenal. the more you are able to execute the bigger your arsenal. im sure LFB is useful as well as heel-toe and x2clutching
[/quote]

Yes, left foot braking can be useful, but it is in no a way a replacement for heel-toe.

Nismo was implying that it was and that doesn't really make sense.
 
#37 ·
The only time LFB is an advantage is when you DO NOT downshift, but want to keep a bit more momentum thru the corner. It allows a quicker return to the throttle.
 
#38 ·
[quote author=chaos4 link=topic=84437.msg1765114#msg1765114 date=1191809144]
The only time LFB is an advantage is when you DO NOT downshift, but want to keep a bit more momentum thru the corner. It allows a quicker return to the throttle.
[/quote]

Left foot braking is used when not downshifting but is used to transfer the vehicles weight to the front tires to limit understeer. Transfer weight to the front, more front tire grip but not lifting off the throttle and killing your corner speed.

I also use the heel off the floor, ball of my foot braking for heel and toe. If you really want to be able to heel and toe well, practice braking with your heel off the floor all the time. This way you get a feel for the brakes without the support of your heel. If you only take your heel off the floor when you heel and toe, it will take much longer to get good at it.
 
#41 ·
I've been trying different things. There isn't enough room/pedals aren't close enough to traditionally heel toe with standard pedals. Most of the time I either blip the throttle then brake or if I can I use my heel to brake and tap gas with toe (Opposite of traditional heeltoe as far as I understand it). Some times I just use half my foot on the brake half on throttle bit of a stretch.

Some of you guys have probably seen the Filipino guy on youtube "how to drive manual" he has a cooper S; anyways I've always wanted to heel toe like he does looks so easy doing it in the mz3 is just awkward.
 
#42 ·
I've tried to do a real heel-toe, but like OP and others have mentioned, the gas pedal just sits too low. Everytime I try, I just end up braking really hard just so I can blip the throttle.

I too use the ball-edge, or the side-step as I like to call it. It's just far easier to pull off when you're on the street, and you're not brake from 40mph to 10mph in like, 1 sec.
 
#43 ·
Ok interesting... i (like everyone else trying to learn manual) watched the youtube vids and like notanegg said, he makes it look super easy in his mini. For me, doing my DD to work in dress shoes, its nearly impossible (or at least rediculously awkward).
Good to know i wasn't doing anything wrong, just that these cars are not really made for this ( at least in the traditional sense)
 
#44 ·
I do it barefoot every day :/

Not that bad, just takes getting used too, I felt the same way about the pedals being in awkward positions for a few weeks or so, just give it time, increase angle and the adjustments will come and it will feel right eventually.

It's a pull, because the gas pedal is so small I can't do it too often otherwise the twist of my leg just hurts over time, but .. it's possible. I wear a shoe size 8 so.. my feet aren't big/long to begin with, so if I can, chances are anyone else can!

I will say the best shoes I've driven in thus far, are my extremely worn in longboarding shoes. ... chucks basically, well Vox's in this case, but they wore in within 3 weeks on a longboard, almost punched holes through the sole but.. getting off topic..

anyways though, shoes with softer soles, or, basically shoes that rely on your foot having control which is EVERY skateboarding shoe made, are far better shoes for driving in than anything else besides actual racing shoes, which.. are hardly shoes to begin with.

I however drive barefoot 99% of the time anyway. Far more control over pedals, thus far better gas mileage, and.. well, better everything!
 
#45 ·
I found it to be impossible to heel-toe my 04' Mazda 3 because the brake pedal on that car was way too touchy and the pedals seem to be spaced different from my 11' MS3.

With this new Speed3, I've been heel toeing like I used to do with my 335i. Just basically anytime I'm on the brakes and I downshift, I'll rev match my using the side of my foot on the gas. The car is even easier to heel toe with the CPE RMM installed as there is less movement in the engine bay which makes it much more predictable.
 
#46 ·
Is there anyway to put spacers on the gas pedal or something to have it somewhat leveled with the brake pedal..

by the way found this on youtube:

Mazda 3 GS at Mission raceway
 
#48 ·
It's hard to record something like this while driving so this was an iphone being held by my left hand also holding the wheel haha.

It gives you an idea, but.. it's possible. I don't actually use my heel for the gas, it's more like the arch of my foot.



While yes this isn't a "true" heel toe as I never let off the clutch until I dropped down into 2nd gear, it is in the fact that I am clutching, braking, and rev matching while shifting... it's just hard to do it.. and record with a phone in your other hand in traffic lol.. but you get the idea.
 
#51 ·
[quote author=XCNuse link=topic=84437.msg4052292#msg4052292 date=1308399968]
click it, it's actually a link, I was hoping photobucket can embed but it doesn't seem to, it'll open a new tab/window
[/quote]Srry turned out to be firefox sucking. Works fine in ie...
 
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