EVO VIII vs STi vs Mazdaspeed3 - Mazda3 Forums : The #1 Mazda 3 Forum


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View Poll Results: Which would you recommend?
EVO VIII 03-05 19 29.23%
STi 04-05 13 20.00%
MS3 33 50.77%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-14-2009, 10:33 AM   #1
11Past9
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Default EVO VIII vs STi vs Mazdaspeed3

A friend of mine might be selling his truck. It is a Toyota Xrunner with all the bolt ons you could think of. He is seriously considering a Mazdaspeed3 but I would like the opinions of EVOM as biased as they may be. His budgets is around $17,000.00

My opinion:

He lives in a state where it rains, and snows a lot. Between May and July all it did was rain. FWD is just not practical considering how much it precipitates but I fail to even see the comparison between the three cars... The MS3 has had a solid amount of cars with transmission problems, and grenading. The stock turbo/engine is pretty much maxed from the factory and the stock internals aren't so hot. The TMIC IMO is just plain stupid, why? an enclosed hood with a TMIC... hmm. Here are the performance specs of the 3 cars

EVO VIII:

0-60 MPH: 4.8
1/4 mi: 13.1
60-0 Braking: 109 ft
Skid Pad: 0.97g
Slalom: 71.7 mph

STi:

0-60 MPH: 4.7
1/4 mi: 13.1
60-0 Braking: 114 ft
Skid Pad: 0.92g
Slalom: 69.8 mph

MS3:

0-60 MPH: 5.8
1/4 mi: 14.4
60-0 Braking: 116 ft
Skid Pad: 0.87g (same as a stock 2005 SRT-4)
Slalom: 67.0 mph

-He is under the impression that the EVO and STi are very expensive to maintain, he mentioned "the clutch and the labor that goes in it and how expensive it is"

-He said finding an EVO for $17,000 or so with lower mileage was RARE and then I found 4 solid examples with under 50,000 miles

-He refuses to test drive the EVO and STi. He has yet to ever even drive one of the two, but he has driven the MS3

-He insists that the 2008+ MS3 won't have transmission or engine problems, but Mazda has proven time and time again to either ignore, or NOT be able to fix the woes of cars previous production years.

I personally think he is batty for even considering the Mazdaspeed3, the only reason to justify it IMO over an EVO or STi is that it would be newer, for a similar price. But newer to me doesn't mean much to me in regards to what car is best... it just means, well... newer. The performance advantage the EVO and STi have over the MS3 are so significant I don't even think the MS3 should be in the equation. Things would be different if EVO's and STi's where still $30,000 but they are dirt cheap now and he doesn't want to buy brand new. What do you all think?
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Old 08-14-2009, 10:42 AM   #2
RLS1400
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Default Re: EVO VIII vs STi vs Mazdaspeed3

Dude, the engine grenading isn't really THAT common, and isn't a "solid" amount of cars. And it is rare for a car that is responsibly modded, with a good tune and a good driver to grenade the motor.

Also, that 1/4 mile time for the MS3 is pretty shitty in what you posted. There have been stock Speed 3's running high 13's, I believe the lowest I've seen is a 13.7-13.8 on stock tires.

I would agree that a lot of the stuff under the hood is maxed out or close to being maxed out... but it is what it is, the car is in a different performance class. When you are talking new, the Speed 3 has a huge advantage over the STI/EVO. When talking used, the STI/EVO can be a better performance package, if you find one that isnt beat to death.

No matter what car he gets it will be a good one IMHO.
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Old 08-14-2009, 10:46 AM   #3
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Default Re: EVO VIII vs STi vs Mazdaspeed3

While I am a fan of the EVO and STi, I would/could never buy a used one (unless I knew and trusted the owner who is selling it). Any type of car like that has probably suffered a lot of abuse... especially with the type of car enthusiasts that flock to it.

While, the same could be said of a Mazdaspeed3 (I have definitely seen quite a few take a flogging at the hand of their owners) at least for the $17,000 price range you can find one lightly used with a lot less abuse than the STis or EVOs in a similar price range.

Yes, the EVO and STi are bigger performers and are not subject to a limited aftermarket, however I prefer the Mazdaspeed3 for the zoom-zoom factor, the practicality of it and the peace of mind knowing I didn't buy a car that got beaten the living crap out of.

I live in Connecticut, where we get some pretty nasty winters. With a dedicated set of snow tires I have had ZERO problems getting around in the ice/snow/rain/sleet/etc. It is all about being a responsible driver that knows how to handle their vehicle in certain situations. I know plenty of people with AWD who are more handicapped than I am when bad weather strikes.

Anyways, this is a decision YOUR FRIEND needs to make. If he likes the Mazdaspeed3, it isn't your place to tell him he is wrong or to try to coax him into buying something he doesn't want. He has to drive it daily and be happy with what he spends his money on.
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Old 08-14-2009, 11:53 AM   #4
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Default Re: EVO VIII vs STi vs Mazdaspeed3

If you are so adamant that the MS3 is not the car suitable, why are you going to a mazda forum looking for advice? I also fail to understand why the MS3 would not be suitable for rain even if it is FWD, giving you have the right tires on it. For the price that you/your friend is thinking of spending, you are going to more likely going to find a MS3 that is in a much better condition that of Evos and STIs at a similar price.

And besides, the MS3 also has a much more composed look than the other two, as well as a better interior.

Granted, given the choice, I would probably get an STI, but I would also spend the extra money and buy new.
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Old 08-14-2009, 01:02 PM   #5
Eternal
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Default Re: EVO VIII vs STi vs Mazdaspeed3

I was going to post just about what Lara did, but she beat me to it.

Take a used EVO/STI/MS3 and drive them identically, beating the crap out of them and the MS3 has less chances of issues. Imagine all 3 of those vehicles with a young driver doing 6000rpm clutch drops, yes its bad on all 3 cars, but the MS3 will just roast its front tires for about 100 feet. The EVO/STI will have its clutch slip a tad, have its drivetrain jolted to death, get a tad bit of wheelspin and take off crying under the pressure. Which would you rather own now? After that abuse? A car that needs new tires (MS3) or a car that has a glazed clutch, possibly a cracked axle and a transmission that is mad at the world (EVO/STI)?

I am not saying the MS3 is better or more reliable, but when buying used, you need to consider THE WORSE CASE SCENARIO.
And when someone owns an EVO/STI, it usually isn't to take the daughter to soccer practice and pick up the granny panties from walmart.
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Old 08-14-2009, 02:28 PM   #6
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Default Re: EVO VIII vs STi vs Mazdaspeed3

I half think this guy is purposely trolling. If you look at his third sentence, he's addressing his comments to members of the evolutionm.net forum, and this was just copy and pasted from there.
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Old 08-14-2009, 03:26 PM   #7
11Past9
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Default Re: EVO VIII vs STi vs Mazdaspeed3

I posted the thread on the evo and subaru forums. So I could get opinions from each side. When I say not suitable for rain, I do not mean not drivable...

FWD + 250whp = no traction and by no traction I mean, you can drive it, no it's not dangerous... but have fun boosting and getting no where. I am emphasizing USABLE power, and don't get me wrong. I've done the FWD thing too, and a few years ago when I had my FWD monster, it was the best buy on the market so there was no debate as to what to get. However todays market is different, you can get a clean 2003-2005 EVO stock or with a solid amount of done right modifications (300-400whp) for around $17,000.00

People here are painting the picture that these cars as a stick of demo that has been lit when buying used. This is simply not the case, if you know what you are looking at, have some common sense, you should have no trouble telling the difference between an EVO or STi that is going to cause you a stink load of problems and one that is not. These cars are tough, they have been produced since 1993 and in the states for about 6 years now. With stock internals a 4G63 can handle about 600whp, stock clutches are weak on purpose and if you know how to drive the transmissions are very strong and everything holds up very well. Hence why there are so many chewing up cars 3-5x the price and spitting them out, on a drag strip, auto x, road course, you name it.

Step one: use your own hopefully educated mind and assess the price, modifications, and appearance... if it looks good, move to step 2

Step two: ask lots of questions, drive it, know what youre doing on the test drive... if it still looks good, take it in to get looked at, check fluids for metal shavings, compression... if that's all good.

step three: congratulations you escaped a beat box and now have gem

Heres an example:

What NOT TO BUY:

Red flag says this guy is an idiot, with those wheels he has instantly lost all credibility that may imply he "knows his stuff"



What TO BUY:



This guy has left nothing out of his description, good, or bad news. The car looks clean and he has pictures to show. If you know your EVO's you know he did not cheap out on parts. He has dyno sheets to prove his claim as well. 370whp, with this kind of money into an already super performer. A VERY good buy.

Point:

When people buy nice cars, and they take the time to build them up properly, 95% of the time they are not waking up, turning the key, and purposely destroying their beloved car they have put so much time and money into. I know I didn't.
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Old 08-14-2009, 05:17 PM   #8
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Default Re: EVO VIII vs STi vs Mazdaspeed3

Hrmm, so I should purchase a used car based on the type of wheels it has? Thanks for the tip.

Someone who has built up a car, be it properly or not, doesn't just ride around shifting at 2500 RPM's and baby the thing, if you purchase performance parts, you're looking for... performance, that means street racing, showing off, autocross, track days, etc. That means a lot of abuse to the vehicle which with a turbo 4 means lots of potential issues.
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:29 PM   #9
g3ck0
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Default Re: EVO VIII vs STi vs Mazdaspeed3

[quote author=11Past9 link=topic=153338.msg3279493#msg3279493 date=1250274375]
Step one: use your own hopefully educated mind and assess the price, modifications, and appearance... if it looks good, move to step 2

Step two: ask lots of questions, drive it, know what youre doing on the test drive... if it still looks good, take it in to get looked at, check fluids for metal shavings, compression... if that's all good.
[/quote]

So what your conclusion based on your educated guess? I don't think you are following your own advice either. You don't seem to have driven any of the cars, but just compared their stats. And you haven't asked us any questions really, just a thread bashing the MS3.

[quote author=CHROMEDCRUISER link=topic=153338.msg3279710#msg3279710 date=1250281073]
Hrmm, so I should purchase a used car based on the type of wheels it has? Thanks for the tip.

Someone who has built up a car, be it properly or not, doesn't just ride around shifting at 2500 RPM's and baby the thing, if you purchase performance parts, you're looking for... performance, that means street racing, showing off, autocross, track days, etc. That means a lot of abuse to the vehicle which with a turbo 4 means lots of potential issues.
[/quote]

Yes, exactly my thoughts. A guy who gives his car bling wheels is going to drive his car just for show, which means keeping it clean and in good working condition (who gonna want it to break down when you are on your way to a party right?). A guy with light, performance wheels is going to be more likely to push his car more. Definitely. I'm glad this guy came to the mazda forums. We are definitely giving you some good advice here.
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Old 08-14-2009, 10:38 PM   #10
CrashDummy11
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Default Re: EVO VIII vs STi vs Mazdaspeed3

I don't really think you can compare the Speed 3 to those two cars. They are in a significantly higher price range. The Speed3 competes with cars like the SRT4, Si, and Cobalt SS.
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