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slow3's '08 Hatch S STF Build

42K views 276 replies 13 participants last post by  gigglehurtz 
#1 · (Edited)
New to the forums. New to the 3. New to Mazdas. Recently picked up a '08 CWP Hatch S . Car has coilovers installed and the exhaust resonator deleted and 95k on the clock. Main purpose is DD duties. But if my "race" car sells, the 3 will get prepped for STF to run mostly local non-SCCA events, but a few trips to Devens will be in order. If I get rid of the other car, it should be easy to justify a STF/slightly uncomfortable daily.

Here she is the day I got her




Ive since deleted the intake silencer and hacked the air box...why not, sounds cool. And stripped the door moulding, 2.3 and 3 badges.

Today I dug into the coilovers to see what Ive got. Unfortunately they appear to be Racelands. The dealer had adjusted them all the way up and the front were preloaded a ton. I took the liberty of removing the wheel gap in the process. Probably went to far, but whatever...they're Racelands :roll: Lowered the front around an inch.




The rears were seized. A little heat, big hammer and vice later and lowered the rear a 1/2" or so. One of the rears is missing the top spring isolator. :angry: I took the other out for now to match it up with a replacement. May or may not drive it as is.




Final outcome






Future Plans
- Replace motor mounts
- Put good tranny fluid in it
- Get a set of real springs and shocks/coilovers (already have a set of 7"x2.5" 10/12k springs, need shocks to go with them and maybe more spring combos)
- 17x7.5s w/ 215-225 200tw (Im thinking Slipstreams and ZIIs or RS3s; and a set of studs for the stockers)
- Rear camber arms
- Replace cat back (probably Corksport w/ HFC, it currently hits the subframe...uggh)
- Get into some tuning w/ MazdaEdit
- SRI
- pre-06 front grille
- Mazda air dam

Its a fun car. I like it more than I expected I would and it keeps growing on me. Few little issues to take care of. It grinds 2nd if you even think about being aggressive. With the mileage, Im hoping that some mounts and a good fluid change fix it. Needs some rust proofing, I'll POR the undercarriage this spring. Needs some plugs and a good MAF cleaning, maybe this weekend. The suspension setup will be fine for winter duties, but Im sure it'll be far too soft and under dampened for real tires and my driving. :)

Im really happy to find out they can be made competitive in STF. My current autox car is a stiffly sprung, stripped 380whp Evo in SM. I run our local street tire index w/ 285 ZIIs. Its for sale. Just trying to get the "toy" costs down. There are some suspension bits Id kill for right now in the FS section here. :twisted: But unfortunately Id be sleeping in the garage indefinitely if I acted on them before selling the Evo.

Anyhow, I'll try to keep this up to date. Thanks for looking

:cheers:
 
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#34 ·
Im on the waiting list. If it extends any further, I'll probably just get some 15x7s.

I know can co-drive my buddy's FRS or boosted TC for grins. And an older guy in a B Street Evo 9 let me run it several times last year.

If I run my 17x8 wheels, Id just get moved to STX, right? Thats appealing to just get out and shake down the car...
 
#36 ·
Test fit my 17x8s over the weekend. She a dirty little thing. :)





The tires that are mounted are 215/45-17 BFG Gforce T/As and are completely shot. Started looking for budget summer tire replacements (V12s are my favorite budget tires so far...) and realized there is no way I can replace these for less than what I paid for the 225/45-17 ZIIs in the basement @ $100/pc. So instead of selling the ZIIs, Im going to run them as my summer tires. I spent the last 3 summers on ZIIs in my Honda and the Evo and never had any issues. So it looks like I'll at least be on good tires if Im running these wheels in STX for an event or 2.

Most of the parts ordered in the last week have arrived. I still need to source a spacer for in between the camber plates and upper spring seat but I think I will be able to start installing it all next weekend. I have Friday off and if weather is cooperative, Im pulling the rear subframe for the rear arms and rust proofing while Im in there. All the bushings, endlinks, etc will get done at the same time and any other components that need it will get painted.

Also made some awesome progress on figuring out the tune over the weekend. Unfortunately Ive got it running 99% open loop, but at least I now have control. There is a timer that controls how long the transition from closed loop to open loop happens. I dont have it available in my limited defined ROM ID. I do have control over the crossover via TPS and Load tables, but its taking 6+ seconds to transition and targeting 14+ AFR that whole time (no bueno..). So now its setup so that anything off idle is open loop. Anything higher and it goes back into closed loop at cruise and wont let go again. Ive had someone with MazdaEdit Professional trying to define the timer with no luck thus far.

The guys at Palmer Performance sent out an update to the DashCommand app Sat morning that included Knock Retard. :) Here is a quick shot of my Eonon GA5151 running the DashCommand app. Starting at Top Left in Counter-Clockwise order: AFR, STFT, LTFT, Air Temp, Coolant Temp, Ign Timing vs Knock Retard vs EGR duty timeline graph, Knock Retard and the middle is VVT advance. Ive got the gauge layout much cleaner now and added a volt meter.

 
#38 ·
thanks! They are 17x8 +38 and around 18lbs I believe. Enkei OEM Evo 7 wheels that I got on trade for stock Evo suspension parts. Great that they are hubcentric on the Mazda too! The face pokes a littler further out than I would like. A little more rubber will also make it look better. I ran 245 or 255s on the same size wheel for the longest time, so the 215s seem tiny.

Im back on the steelies and snows for safety reasons for the time being. :(
 
#39 ·
Ive been looking at the Drive-by-Wire system over the weekend. Apparently, automakers program cars these days so that the ECU is constantly trying to add as much Throttle Plate as it can in order to make the car feel more peppy off the lot. One of the parts of the DashCommand app shows you the difference between Pedal Angle and Actual Throttle Plate Angle and it was sometimes 30deg difference!

Read this article and the maps I have are really similar in look and the original tunes are similar to what I had.
http://www.dirtyimpreza.com/forums/show ... Improve-it

So:
Load is the measure of available TQ. More Load = more potential power. So when 30% Pedal Angle = almost 80% load, you've just turned that 80% of available torque into only 30% pedal angle and the 1st 10% is mostly a dead spot so its more like a 20% range. 100% Throttle Plate angle is achieved long before 80% Pedal Angle too. In the example provided in the link, he numbs it down so that the load values are more linear to actual Pedal Angle and removes the ECU's instructions to add more.

It Works! I still need to fine tune it. But it works. Feels more sluggish from a dead rest, that's the part I need to fix. But the rest is spot on. The last 10-20% of pedal travel never seemed to make a difference, but now it does. Now it doesn't go 100% until I bury the pedal. Im always spinning an inner tire pulling out in traffic and now its controllable. Should have the same affect on the course.
 
#40 ·
Here are my throttle duty and requested torque maps. Ive intentionally set both up to 90=100% since the ECU never registers above 90%, but I don't think its necessary and I think Im going to move it back to 100%. I didn't go as extreme in the link provided, but Im still not done with it. The several (gear dependent?) other throttle maps match the maximum map. It may be worth testing this in different gears as well.



 
#41 ·
I have Corksport Plates and Mazdaspeed Motorsports coilovers (12mm threads, I believe) and koni tophats.

http://store.resuspension.com/product.php?productid=18889&cat=391&page=2

This is the correct type of spacer for the application, right? 12mm = .472441, so the .500x.700x.250? Not stepped? Im wondering if .250 is enough spacer and whether I'll have enough threads if I go any further than that.
 
#42 ·
Mocked up the camber plates last night and I dont think there is enough thread for any spacer and the upper spring perch. The threads arent even long enough to stick out the top of the pillowball bushing when its installed without a spacer or upper perch. Most of the pictures of you guys' setups appear to have much more thread length than I do.

What would you guys say the minimum thread engagement should be?

Im thinking I may just have to run these as they are intended with the stock upper spring seat up against the plate. booo
 
#45 ·
Im thinking I may just have to run these as they are intended with the stock upper spring seat up against the plate. booo
I run the stock upper spring seat/bearing. It works well and it's designed properly because it seats onto the outside edge of the camber plate, dispersing the load, instead of concentrating the load at a very small contact point at the middle of the plate, which has a tendency to bend plates. Sometimes OEM design is better and it's not a bad idea to stay with it.
 
#49 ·
Ah then you unfortunately didn't get everything from the previous owner. A new kit comes with an upper perch that allows you to use the stock bearings. It also allows you to use the stock top hats.

(Pic Below from my setup) On right is stock top hat, stock bearings, MS perch on bottom (the shiny'ish black part...the part you're missing). On left is Corksport plates, stock bearings in middle, MS perch on bottom.



I know KW sells individual parts so giving them a call may solve your problems quickly and easily if you get stuck. Also I have the original instructions from the kit if you're interested in a copy I can get them scanned.
 
#51 ·
http://www.kw-suspensions.com/extras/docs/BBXQ/10275006-eah68675006.pdf

These are instructions for the V1s. Im not sure if the MS coilovers are V1 or V2. The ones I have are for the MZ3, so they arent adjustable.

Take out of the standard top mount the original axial bearing. Reassemble in the following logical sequence on to the top mount as shown on the photo: standard top mount, synthetic disc, axial bearing, upper spring seat.
so it looks like I need the synthetic disc, axial bearing and the upper spring seat. Correct?

http://www.kw-suspensions.com/products.html?p=1

This might get expensive... :( Hopefully all of that is included in the "Spring Seat" at $27/pc Im going to call after I get the model # off the housings.
 
#52 ·
Sounds like you have the equivalent of V1s. The only physical difference being the internal valving, everything else should be equal.

Don't have to have the disc...I don't use them. (they are in the pic in my previous post just below the polished perch of the Corksport plate) I think their purpose is to prevent squeaking and act as a kind of friction surface. My setup w/out them only squeaks over big bumps in cold temps. The axial bearing is stock. All you should need is the perches.

It's hard to tell on the website if the spring seat is the upper or lower. I would call to confirm. Good luck.
 
#54 ·
KW will not sell parts for Mazdaspeed motorsports coilovers. And they will rebuild, but not revalve for future reference.
Yup, went down that road a couple years ago. They had to rebuild a blown rear shock for me...fixed it under warranty even though the MS people say explicitly no warranty included. They will revalve in a sense that when rebuilding they will put new valves in there, but true they won't custom valve. Also, they don't custom valve their own KW shocks either..."not part of their business model" I was told.


I asked him to pretend they were V1s and he's sending me a breakdown of parts.
The parts should be interchangeable with the KWs, so you'll be good to go if they sell the individual parts
 
#55 ·
Please note that the prices were given to me over email and may or may not be accurate.



List from top to bottom:
- Stock mount (black)
- Composite Disc (purple) #65243244 - $9.99 ea
- Bearing (black) #66030000 - $34.99 ea
- Upper Spring Seat (purple) #65030016 - $29.99 ea

None of these are on the website and you need to call to order. But he says they are in stock.

So it looks like the MS kit comes with a black version of the perch (#65030016) and the rest is re-used OEM stuff. With the condition of all the rest of my suspension components being so iffy, Im tempted to just get the whole setup so Im not forced to put a shotty OEM bearing back in.
 
#56 · (Edited)
Not a bad looking setup if it seats up and fits properly to a camber plate (which it should if it fits up to the oem upper strut mount as shown in the pic). It's basically the oem design with fancy looking purple aluminum instead of plastic composite. It would be better if the mating surface to the spring was sloped like oem though.
 
#57 ·
They havent answered at all today, so Im still tossing this around. If it makes more sense to use OEM parts, I will, especially since they are likely cheaper.

The purple ones appear to be the same as what clemsonmz3 posted, so Im assuming that all these are are not sloped.

Adam, are you running the stock upper spring seats, bearings and discs on aftermarket plates with aftermarket coilovers/springs? Is the stock spring 2.5" at the top?
 
#58 ·
Nice to see some exploded pictures of this stuff. This guy claims that the 1pc seat/bearing is not desirable.
http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?27039-Focus-Mazda3-rally-suspension/page6

We want it to acommodate the angle induced between the spring and plate due to the extra camber, but what is it about the 1pc design that is not good? Am I correct that the MS motorsports coilovers just replace the sloped seat and keep everything else? If so, what is stopping any of us from running the OEM sloped seat? Is it truly 1 pc and not able to be separated? Clemson made it sound like he re-used OEM parts on his, except the seat.
 
#60 ·
Looking at the pictures in that link harder..seems like OEM is NOT a 2.5" spring. Is that correct?

I need to get this sorted so I can get some stuff done at work! lol Good thing the majority of my coworkers are quasi-car guys and they know autocross season is upon us so I may have other things on my mind at the moment. ha
 
#62 · (Edited)
Looking at the pictures in that link harder..seems like OEM is NOT a 2.5" spring. Is that correct?
Correct oem spring is 3" I.D. at the top and as big or bigger on the bottom to fit on a traditional strut perch.


Adam, you confirmed my post above.

Sometimes its way easier to start with OEM so at least you are starting at the same place everyone else did. I had no clue what was stock.

Im going to order the KW parts and call it good. At least I'll know I have good bearings.
Glad I could help.

Yeah, this setup works in my case because I like the spring rate of the tapered Bilstein springs (380 # per inch) and it works well for me. I don't have the ability to swap springs and spring rates if I had the itch to do so, though. If I wanted to do that I would invest in the KW upper bearing setup you listed above and a custom machined sloped spacer :)
 
#63 ·
Got the parts ordered from KW. Looks like Im waiting until next weekend to tackle the front end. And I want to do front/rear at the same time so Im not daily driving my garage alignment too long. Maybe I will get ancy this weekend and install the rear bushings, SPC arms, bar, endlinks and rust proof. Weather is great.

Today Im tackling the valve cover gasket, hoping that cures the oily spark plug threads. Also putting in some new NGK Iridiums. While Im in there, Im going to inspect the VVT actuator and chain. Im still seeing low rpm/high load knock and thinking it may be timing related since its always accompanied by VVT advance.
 
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