Topic: MS3 or CSRT4 (Read 2203 times)

SweetSandMan · « **on:** March 17, 2009, 10:38:38 AM »

So After I sell my gas-guzzling SUV I will be in the market for one of these 2 cars. I thought about a Cobalt SS but it bores the heck out of me…it’s a fast rental car with fog lights, a big dumb wing, and two-tone seats. I like the aggressive front styling and the glove box/mini-fridge that the CSRT4 has but it appears to be depreciating at an astonishing rate…there are 08s that are still new and have no miles on lots that have sticker prices of over 27k that are being sold for around 18-19k. I would rather not be buried with a car that’s not worth jack squat after 2 yrs or so. I test drove both cars and I loved both. The CSRT4 interior was not nearly as impressive as the Speed3’s by a long shot but the shifter felt quite sloppy in the speed3. They are both very powerful from the factory and I’m not trying to create some 11 second track whore…just a few simple bolt ons and drag radials at the track. The problem with the CSRT4’s depreciation can be overlooked when I see the number of problems that the Speed3 appears to be having from the factory…between windshield rattles, turbo seals, motor mounts, boost spikes that throw rods etc. etc. Any advice/reasoning I should get a Speed3 over a CSRT4?

FOGMIC 3 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 17, 2009, 10:43:46 AM »

I would say do the same research with the CSRT4 that you've done with the MS3 and then compare, unless you have a list of problems already for the CSRT4 but you just didn't list it here.

dabears2k · « **Reply #2 on:** March 17, 2009, 10:51:03 AM »

The CSRT4 is an absolute pig and has the worst torque steer I have ever encountered

dread · « **Reply #3 on:** March 17, 2009, 11:14:01 AM »

I still have never seen an srt4 in person and I see a speed3 a few times a week. No wonder that aren't worth anything nobody wants them

SweetSandMan · « **Reply #4 on:** March 17, 2009, 11:31:54 AM »

Quote from: PRBLU3MZR on March 17, 2009, 10:43:46 AM

I would say do the same research with the CSRT4 that you've done with the MS3 and then compare, unless you have a list of problems already for the CSRT4 but you just didn't list it here.

I did list the problems...it's depreciation rate is faster than it drives and it's interior is as exciting as watching paint dry. Other than that it appears to not have many problems mechanically as I have searched their forums. The motor is bulletproof...there are people well over 400 at the wheels with zero issues...but I'm not looking to create a whp monster...just simple intake/exhaust...so that's not a huge deal for me. What makes you glad you got your car over some other hot tuner?

Tim25 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 17, 2009, 11:35:27 AM »

The CSRT4 is quick like a Speed 3, but you have to remember what each car is based on. The MS3 is based on the Mazda 3, a solid, good handling little car.

The CSRT4 is based on a ~~Cobalt~~ Caliber. A steaming pile of shit.

Don't forget that Chrysler will probably be bankrupt within the year, and the ~~Cobalt's~~ Caliber's warranty will be null and void - and a warranty on a Chrysler turbo is an important thing.

The Speed 3's shifter can be improved drastically with Corksport motor mount inserts and a set of shifter bushings - both for less than $100.

TIM

ito · « **Reply #6 on:** March 17, 2009, 11:44:23 AM »

Caliber... CSRT is based on the Caliber.

And to Say that Chrysler will be out of business within the year is crap. If anything there will be two options.

A) They go into a Chapter 11 situation and Restructure
B) They get bought out by another company.

Either way, the warranty would not be null and void.

1BadPig · « **Reply #7 on:** March 17, 2009, 11:59:36 AM »

If you don't mind the retro look, the Chevy HHR SS is a good buy, especially now. However the interior of the MS3 is the best out of them all.

Fa5t · « **Reply #8 on:** March 17, 2009, 12:13:33 PM »

Honestly, I feel the Speed is the way to go. The caliber platform seems clumsy, and even the old neon platforms look weird. The MS3 yes the shifter feels like poop, but she holds a turn nice, great power, and looks AWESOME! Plus the shifter can be helped with bushings ect. If your looking to create a HP monster than as of now, the SRT might be the better way to go. But I'm sure if your patient something will come along for the MS3 in terms of engine management. Either way enjoy what you buy!

FOGMIC 3 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2009, 12:16:48 PM »

Quote from: SweetSandMan on March 17, 2009, 11:31:54 AM

Quote from: PRBLU3MZR on March 17, 2009, 10:43:46 AM
I would say do the same research with the CSRT4 that you've done with the MS3 and then compare, unless you have a list of problems already for the CSRT4 but you just didn't list it here.
I did list the problems...it's depreciation rate is faster than it drives and it's interior is as exciting as watching paint dry. Other than that it appears to not have many problems mechanically as I have searched their forums. The motor is bulletproof...there are people well over 400 at the wheels with zero issues...but I'm not looking to create a whp monster...just simple intake/exhaust...so that's not a huge deal for me. What makes you glad you got your car over some other hot tuner?

Well there you go. Get the MS3, you'll be happy in both the looks and performance categories vs. the CSRT4. You'll be just fine with an SRI and the FORGE BPV for daily driving and nothing serious as in monster power as you stated.

sdemo45 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2009, 12:39:44 PM »

http://www.calibersrt4.net/dodge-caliber-srt-4-discussion/2717-csrt4-vs-ms3.html

From the other side. Even if you dont care about the differences, its fun to read. They bash the ms3 saying that the seats suck and that old men trying to feel young again buy the ms3.

epic3 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:23:07 PM »

lmao.

Speed3 imho for overall fun/daily driving/touch of track... best bang for the buck.

Ryz · « **Reply #12 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:23:56 PM »

Quote from: SweetSandMan on March 17, 2009, 10:38:38 AM

between windshield rattles, turbo seals, motor mounts, boost spikes that throw rods etc. etc.

Windshield rattle - is a squeak not a rattle, dealer fix, not even all that bad when it does happen
turbo seals- 25k without a problem
moter mounts- it one mount not several and it's a bolt, not the mount.
throw rods - not if it's stock, those saying theirs did it when stock are full of crap.

So tired of hearing this same crap over and over.

Fa5t · « **Reply #13 on:** March 17, 2009, 02:42:10 PM »

Yeah, big HP is great, but I'm looking to hold a turn. Plus you spend all that money on a CSRT or the MS3 and you still lose to a $3,000 mustang in the 1/4. And I don't hate the CSRT I'm just ball bustin, if thats what you want, than thats what you want. Don't let me or anyone tell you any different.

ito · « **Reply #14 on:** March 17, 2009, 03:16:26 PM »

I just wanted to post this from the Caliber Web site.

Quote

The top 5 for power numbers are:

1. Bayshore power tuned by Realtune : 505whp
2. Realtune Performance test mule : 433whp
3. Glowbot tuned by Realtune : 391whp
4. AGP test mule with help from Realtune : 378whp
5. Black08 tuned by Realtune : 373.8whp

These, according to them.... are the MOST POWERFUL Calibers in the world. 5th most powerful Caliber is putting down 373whp?

One more thing... Awhp is going to be lower due to the power drain of AWD.

I'm no fanboy... I just wanted to put out what is said by the Caliber guys.

revhigh · « **Reply #15 on:** March 17, 2009, 03:38:09 PM »

i knew it!!!

FOGMIC 3 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 17, 2009, 03:39:07 PM »

sdemo45 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 17, 2009, 03:40:23 PM »

yea, but what you all fail to mention is that a couple regular 3s (may one RIP) have surpassed 450, and even 500hp. Eat your heart out cSRT4

... hahaha.

*dont bitch at me too... relax*

HiggyGT · « **Reply #18 on:** March 17, 2009, 04:06:17 PM »

A few of my friends have CSRT's and if I could do it again I would get the CSRT. With just a few mods, like Mopar S1, down pipe, WGA, intake, the CSRT's turn into quite the beast. Tq steer is an issue but aside from that they are great straight line performers that take well to mods and make power easily.

I had a NSRT and miss that car every day. The MS3 has turned out to be a big dissapointment for me. Mostly because of cold weather issues. And since its cold here 6 months out of the year you can see what I'm getting at. And its stock to boot. I can't justify spending any money on the MS3 and it will be getting traded in sooner than later.

SweetSandMan · « **Reply #19 on:** March 17, 2009, 04:06:58 PM »

Well this thread got out of hand...I have said I have NO INTEREST in breaking some whp record or something...just want a good reliable daily driver with some simple bolt ons. Which one am I going to enjoy driving, EVERY DAY, more? It's hard to make that judgement during a test drive due to it only being 5-10 minutes. Just looking for some insight on things that would sway me one way versus the other that DON'T have to do with future 500whp modifications.

HiggyGT · « **Reply #20 on:** March 17, 2009, 04:15:23 PM »

Go with the CSRT. Get a down pipe, Stage 1, an aeroforce scan guage to fully turn off the DSP/TC, and an adjustable WGA along with a wideband and you will have one hell of a reliable daily driver that should be close to if not 300hp.

Let the Caliber haters hate. Its a really good platform. (this coming from a Speed 3 owner should tell you something =) I have had a good amount of wheel time with the CSRT and the only thing that was an issue, if you can even call it an issue was Tq steer (modded). I can write you an essay on the "everyday" "common" issues I have with my STOCK MS3. Thats not to say there are not issues with the CSRT, but none that stand out like the MS3's do.

RC08MS3 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 17, 2009, 04:32:55 PM »

People need to stop making these threads, they are pointless, just drive them both, choose which you like and sign your life away. you apparently have done your homework and have found the issues with both, so decide what you wanna deal with and go with it.

and as for the other forum topic posted, i love how people call themselves "car enthusiast" when they get on a forum and bash other cars. no your not a car enthusiast, you enthuse about your own damn car, not them in general. otherwise you would tell the OP the same as i stated.

sandman, not singleing you out bro, just choose what YOU want, not what a forum states, you will never get a straight answer.

SweetSandMan · « **Reply #22 on:** March 17, 2009, 04:53:47 PM »

Quote from: RC08MS3 on March 17, 2009, 04:32:55 PM

People need to stop making these threads, they are pointless, just drive them both, choose which you like and sign your life away. you apparently have done your homework and have found the issues with both, so decide what you wanna deal with and go with it.

and as for the other forum topic posted, i love how people call themselves "car enthusiast" when they get on a forum and bash other cars. no your not a car enthusiast, you enthuse about your own damn car, not them in general. otherwise you would tell the OP the same as i stated.

sandman, not singleing you out bro, just choose what YOU want, not what a forum states, you will never get a straight answer.

Much appreciated. Like I said I have test driven both and I like them both but a test drive is not the same as actually owning one and living with it's daily problems or annoyances. From the feedback I've gotten from this site as well as from the Caliber site...I'll probably be going Speed3...plus it's exhaust sounds way sexier!!!

FOGMIC 3 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 17, 2009, 06:41:19 PM »

Quote from: PRBLU3MZR on March 17, 2009, 12:16:48 PM

Quote from: SweetSandMan on March 17, 2009, 11:31:54 AM
Quote from: PRBLU3MZR on March 17, 2009, 10:43:46 AM
I would say do the same research with the CSRT4 that you've done with the MS3 and then compare, unless you have a list of problems already for the CSRT4 but you just didn't list it here.
I did list the problems...it's depreciation rate is faster than it drives and it's interior is as exciting as watching paint dry. Other than that it appears to not have many problems mechanically as I have searched their forums. The motor is bulletproof...there are people well over 400 at the wheels with zero issues...but I'm not looking to create a whp monster...just simple intake/exhaust...so that's not a huge deal for me. What makes you glad you got your car over some other hot tuner?

Well there you go. Get the MS3, you'll be happy in both the looks and performance categories vs. the CSRT4. You'll be just fine with an SRI and the FORGE BPV for daily driving and nothing serious as in monster power as you stated.

My quote above was in direct response to your question and posts along with this below quote:

Quote from: HiggyGT on March 17, 2009, 04:15:23 PM

Go with the CSRT. Get a down pipe, Stage 1, an aeroforce scan guage to fully turn off the DSP/TC, and an adjustable WGA along with a wideband and you will have one hell of a reliable daily driver that should be close to if not 300hp.

Let the Caliber haters hate. Its a really good platform. (this coming from a Speed 3 owner should tell you something =) I have had a good amount of wheel time with the CSRT and the only thing that was an issue, if you can even call it an issue was Tq steer (modded). I can write you an essay on the "everyday" "common" issues I have with my STOCK MS3. Thats not to say there are not issues with the CSRT, but none that stand out like the MS3's do.

It just seemd that the OP was concerned about looks AND performance, which hands down, MS3 wins. I in no way hate or like the CSRT4, I just know its powerful and can be very well respected liike other cars out there. OP wants Looks AND power for daily driving. From MOST angles, not all, but MOST, CSRT4 looks like a baby jeep / durango or something, but from others, looks alright, kinda of monsterous, and if that's the look you want in a car, then I can see how the CSRT4 will suit someone just fine. It just seems that the OP stated look in regards to the MS3 more preferiable then the CSRT4.

Next, power for daily driving. Both cars offer more then you need for average conditions, its personal preference to the OP in the end, so TEST drive them and THEN decide with that PLUS looks, if its still a concern then, in which car will best suit your needs.

SweetSandMan · « **Reply #24 on:** March 17, 2009, 07:20:56 PM »

The problem is that I did in fact Test drive both cars and I like them both. They each had their slight ups and slight downs. The CSRT4 had a dull interior and rode like my Blazer does. The Speed3 had a God awfully sloppy shifter feel but that was it's own real downside. They are both very practical in that they are hatches (another reason the Cobalt was knocked off it's N-Ring record high horse for me). The responses I have gotten from both sites says alot about their owners. I truely appreciate the feedback from the Speed3 guys and a few select CSRT owners over on those forums..but most of them seemed to just be rude and arrogant and think that the CSRT is god's gift to man...just like the old NSRT owners were. It was pretty much going to be a coin toss on which one I got...then I got on these forums and thought...Who would I rather go to should a problem arise? SPEED3 FTW!!! I will be with you all shortly. Does anyone know someone that wants to purchase a Chevy Blazer? ICE COLD A/C!!!

sdemo45 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 17, 2009, 09:04:40 PM »

Quote from: RC08MS3 on March 17, 2009, 08:28:10 PM

i wish the mods would close threads.....

they do

. they also remove posts by users that cant stop arguing and shitting on threads. PM one of them and I'm sure they'll be glad to do something...

krazyk86cu · « **Reply #26 on:** March 18, 2009, 01:49:40 AM »

Quote from: sdemo45 on March 17, 2009, 12:39:44 PM

http://www.calibersrt4.net/dodge-caliber-srt-4-discussion/2717-csrt4-vs-ms3.html

From the other side. Even if you dont care about the differences, its fun to read. They bash the ms3 saying that the seats suck and that old men trying to feel young again buy the ms3.

Quote

yea, i went down to the javits center for the new york auto show a couple weeks ago. they had the speed3 there, but it was locked up, so i only got a chance to sit in the regular 3 coupe, and the seats in that definitely weren't top of the line, especially for someone my height.

hmmm, I didn't know there was a 3 coupe. I'm gonna have to go check that out right now.

krazyk86cu · « **Reply #27 on:** March 18, 2009, 02:00:02 AM »

Quote from: sleet_22 on March 17, 2009, 05:36:20 PM

Hahaha.... wow... I wasnt aware that Mazda 3 had a Coupe version....

"yea, i went down to the javits center for the new york auto show a couple weeks ago. they had the speed3 there, but it was locked up, so i only got a chance to sit in the regular 3 coupe, and the seats in that definitely weren't top of the line, especially for someone my height."

Smurt Peoplz

DAMN YOU KEVIN!!! I quoted the same thing and now that I read through the rest of the thread see you beat me to it. Dammit

icspots · « **Reply #28 on:** March 18, 2009, 08:18:40 AM »

Quote from: sdemo45 on March 17, 2009, 09:04:40 PM

Quote from: RC08MS3 on March 17, 2009, 08:28:10 PM
i wish the mods would close threads.....

they do . they also remove posts by users that cant stop arguing and shitting on threads. PM one of them and I'm sure they'll be glad to do something...

Ask and you shall receive.

Everyone keep it

I've removed all of the off topic posts and all the arguing (funny, basically all of whoosh's posts), further thread crapping will get this thread locked. I'll be submitting receipts to get back the last 10 minutes of my life.

cosmicsp33d3 · « **Reply #29 on:** March 18, 2009, 09:17:17 AM »

lol ohhh man... ok
ms3 = better handling, better interior, REAL LSD, couple bolt ons and you can be near 300hp. Great track car stock (autox road, road course).

CSRT4 - lots of potential, but only in a straight line. uhhh thats all I got.

I have 30k miles on my car, beat the living crap out of it daily and have not had 1 mechanical issue yet. All I did was a sri and shifter bushings and I've beaten turbo cobalts, sc cobalts and nsrt4's on the street so it holds its own. The cars you consider will all do fine, those were my cars I considered too, but I was only down to a cobalt SS SC or a ms3. I love my ms3 now, wouldnt trade it for anything unless the focus RS comes. Its more refined than all the others though...so it ultimately comes to what you want most out of a car.

The original Mazda3-based forum.

Author Topic: MS3 or CSRT4 (Read 2203 times)