'07 Mazda 3 - Fading Brakes - Odd Behavior - Mazda3 Forums : The #1 Mazda 3 Forum
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 12-21-2016, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
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'07 Mazda 3 - Fading Brakes - Odd Behavior

2007 Mazda 3

I've read and searched these threads up and down, I've found similar issues but nothing exact.

Brakes worked great two nights ago (no issues at all).

I was driving on some ice when I felt my ABS kicked on. Suddenly after this event my pedal fades when attempting to brake. (It used to be very touchy. I only applied very little pressure and my car would come to a complete stop.)

- I checked for leaks - observed none

- Inspected Brake Fluid Level - Full (no visible contamination or odd color)

- Jacked Up car and inspected Calipers, Brackets and Brake Pads. - Found a Stripped Guide Pin on Front Passenger Caliper Bracket. (Replaced with New Caliper Bracket and Guide Pins)

- Performed Inspection by turning vehicle off, pumping the breaks and holding the pedal depressed. Start the vehicle and the pedal does depress.

* Performed Vacuum Function Inspection *
1. Depressed pedal with normal force
2. First Pedal stoke is long and becomes shorter with subsequent strokes. *HOWEVER* I do feel the pedal slightly fade, after subsequent strokes. BUT pedal does not fade all the way to the previous stroked level.

So my question is, is this Master Cylinder, Brake Booster, or Air in the Brake Lines and/or air in the ABS?

Last edited by SethCalkins; 12-21-2016 at 08:19 AM.
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 12-24-2016, 06:36 AM
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Though I haven't had it happen to any vehicle I've owned in the last 25+ years, I have had a Master Cylinder go bad on me, and it felt exactly like what you're describing.

Fact is, I know the exact day the MC went bad on my 72 Cadillac. September 22, 1989. The day after Hurricane Hugo. I was using it to tow cut up lree logs that had fallen on the house from the back yard to the road. That was one SCARY damned feeling, too. No brakes = AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH@!@!@!@!!@!@@!!@!
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 12-28-2016, 08:05 PM
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There could have been some air in the ABS pump. If the ABS pump wasn't drained and flushed properly, then it could have been an issue that just arose.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 12-28-2016, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thzpcs View Post
There could have been some air in the ABS pump. If the ABS pump wasn't drained and flushed properly, then it could have been an issue that just arose.
When I contacted my local Mazda authorized dealer about the cost to bleed my brakes & to cycle the ABS to purge any air in the system, I explained what happen to the Mazda tech. He explained that given the situation there was no possible way for air to be introduced into the brake system, as its a self contained system. (Unless there were leaks, which by confirming the brake fluid level is not apparent.) he mentioned that it was likely the MC.

Although he did give me pricing on bleeding my brakes and cycling the ABS. ($200!!!)

He said he would recommend having them investigate the issue rather than just simply having them bleed my brakes.


So is any of this true?
I'm always skeptical what the stealerships say..
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 12-30-2016, 12:15 PM
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Your problem is not air in brakes. Because everything was Ok and suddenly it is not OK and there are no leaks. If you had brake line issue, it would most likely occur at one of the wheel lines, where rubber hose located or in caliper piston. You would see some fluid. Then you wouldn't even feel sudden loss of all brakes. Because, if you lose one wheel braking, others will still do the job. But if you would lose so much fluid that you are finally feel systematic failure then how do you explain full brake fluid reservoir?

Your problem is master cylinder/booster (most likely). May be ABS unit.What ABS does? It opens/closes a valve to let pressure off caliper when wheel is locked. May be it is computer issue that makes ABS malfunction. You have sensor at each wheel but then again, your ABS light is not on. So, ABS thinks it is doing OK. Look at booster.

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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 12-30-2016, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by slavuta View Post
Your problem is not air in brakes. Because everything was Ok and suddenly it is not OK and there are no leaks. If you had brake line issue, it would most likely occur at one of the wheel lines, where rubber hose located or in caliper piston. You would see some fluid. Then you wouldn't even feel sudden loss of all brakes. Because, if you lose one wheel braking, others will still do the job. But if you would lose so much fluid that you are finally feel systematic failure then how do you explain full brake fluid reservoir?

Your problem is master cylinder/booster (most likely). May be ABS unit.What ABS does? It opens/closes a valve to let pressure off caliper when wheel is locked. May be it is computer issue that makes ABS malfunction. You have sensor at each wheel but then again, your ABS light is not on. So, ABS thinks it is doing OK. Look at booster.
Thank you. I can verify the ABS appears to be working correctly. After event happened I was able to engage ABS on icy pavement. It does not appear as if my brakes are going to FAIL, the brake simply requires additional distance in the brake pedal to stop the vehicle.

Again thanks for your input
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-15-2017, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by SethCalkins View Post
Thank you. I can verify the ABS appears to be working correctly. After event happened I was able to engage ABS on icy pavement. It does not appear as if my brakes are going to FAIL, the brake simply requires additional distance in the brake pedal to stop the vehicle.

Again thanks for your input
Were you able to identify the issue ? I have noticed the exact same thing on my 07 mzd 3 in the last week. I definitely need my pressure on the brake pedal to get the same amount of stopping power and the break pedal is travelling further further in order to engage.

ANd I also noticed it right after we had a lot of snow and ice one day and I was using ABS a lot. (not that I'm a "late" or hard breaker at all. I doubt very much its my pads or rotors - I swapped them out about 40k kms ago.

Please let us know

2007 MZ3 2.L GT Hatchback - stock so far
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 10:52 PM
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The only additional thing I can think of you doing is testing the MC, as it's pretty easy. You can just park it, ensure it's off, and depress the brake pedal. Hold pressure on it, and see if it sinks to the floor. It might depress a little at first, but if it keeps sinking then that's probably it.
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