Angle of Control arms (Suspension theory thread) - Mazda3 Forums : The #1 Mazda 3 Forum
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post #1 of 512 (permalink) Old 06-10-2013, 10:35 PM Thread Starter
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Angle of Control arms (Suspension theory thread)

If anyone can (and this would be fantastic if you can), get a picture of the underside of their car (with it sitting on the ground of course), so I can see the angle of the control arms with the prokit?

A measurement from the ground to the weld seam would be fantastic as well.

Pretty please!! Thanks.

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post #2 of 512 (permalink) Old 06-10-2013, 10:45 PM
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I'd do it but i'm assuming its diff on a mz3 than a speed...


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post #3 of 512 (permalink) Old 06-10-2013, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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Subframe components are the same; should be the same?

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post #4 of 512 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 12:14 AM
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If you need stock for comparison, I'd happily shoot a pic of the bottom of my 07. What've you got cooking Nuse?


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post #5 of 512 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XCNuse View Post
If anyone can (and this would be fantastic if you can), get a picture of the underside of their car (with it sitting on the ground of course), so I can see the angle of the control arms with the prokit?

A measurement from the ground to the weld seam would be fantastic as well.

Pretty please!! Thanks.
How exact do you need this measurement? According to specs I am approx. 1/4" lower than Pro-kit in front and my LCAs are almost dead level.


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post #6 of 512 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
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A measure in inches to the weld seam and a picture of the angle would be the perfect way to do it.

It's beyond clear to me how much grip I'm losing by having a loose front end that likes to roll around without me knowing, but not even that sharp turns on normal driving roads and I run out of grip SO FAST it's pathetic.

It was particularly noticeable at two very specific times on this trip to maryland last weekend.
Once on the way up I hit a turnpike in South Carolina and it was a little damp, only going 40-50 (oily?) I almost plowed off the road which was scary as shit. I actually had to brake mid turn (no-no) but it held its line and I made the turn safely.

The other time was going up to the house at epicmeet and a buddy in a speed6 and I were sprinting up a hill, and the first turn into the neighborhood/area is a flat right and a flat/offcamber left, and once again not going that fast I lost all grip through my front end.

On-camber turns my car handles like a beast, off-camber I just get screwed over.
It was hard to notice this on the track because of how much more sticky the NT05s are, but it's very clear to me on street tires, my grip is non-existant.
Especially when a near stock car can take turns as fast / faster than me when that shouldn't at all be the case.

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post #7 of 512 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 09:17 AM
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You have your most current alignment to share? How long has it been if not?

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post #8 of 512 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 09:21 AM Thread Starter
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I've got the sheet around here somewhere.. maybe; but really it doesn't matter because it all needs to be raised and re-done.

It was close to a stock setup (not track), only difference was camber, which I'm running less of now than I was.
Majority was zeroed or near zeroed out, and camber stayed where it was. Toe I had more set to negative than positive but hardly any at all anyways.

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post #9 of 512 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 09:29 AM
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Lower doesn't mean more grip. It can mean better handling due to a lower center of gravity, but that's dramatically less important than suspension geometry. That lower cg may not even matter if your roll centers drop so much that the roll moment actually increases.

Stiffness, which most people get only as a side effect of lowering springs, is generally good for grip. This is mostly because of A) controlling load transfer, and B) reduced body roll. For a-arm cars A is much more important, since they gain camber throughout their suspension travel. For strut cars like ours, But matters about equally as much as A.

Unfortunately, in our cars, the suspension geometry, which is the number one priority for making grip, doesn't work well with more than moderate lowering. Once you go beyond that, the lowered cg does nothing to help you. Ideally, there would be a way to adjust our roll centers, but nobody has come up with a good solution for that short of custom LCAs.

My point is that when you say a stock height car shouldn't be able to take turns quicker than you, you're basing that on the idea that low is fast, which is a myth. It's actually quite expected that a stock height car would turn faster than a significantly lower one.
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post #10 of 512 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 10:47 AM Thread Starter
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Trust me this is known

It's trying to find where that sweet spot of arm motion on our McStrut setup is.

Someone mentioned talking to Tripoint but I don't want to pay $2000 for whatever solution they have.
Guys on MSF are looking into it but no dice, I've looked into it and it could be done, but it won't happen (I don't have access to right people / shop stuff).

(btw I wasn't basing my point on lower is faster; it's the fact he's on mazdaspeed accessory springs and stock everything else. For the n00bs wondering why, yes you give an excellent explanation, but for me that isn't the case [but still good info to add in])


Hence why I've been bugging Corksport about it lol.
Only companies I can see helping is Corksport, AWR, or Tripoint, but chances are they'll never give us a solution (not worth the R&D for the handful of us that want it).

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